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How many rod rings on a 12' rod?

How many rings does your favourite 12' Barbel rod have?

  • 7 + tip

    Votes: 8 11.1%

  • 8 + tip

    Votes: 13 18.1%

  • 9 + tip

    Votes: 18 25.0%

  • 10 + tip

    Votes: 33 45.8%
  • Total voters
    72
Andrew Boyne

Andrew Boyne

Senior Member
Following on from the length/test curve thread - how many rings does your favourite 12' barbel rod have? Why do some builders wrap rods with 10 intermediates + tip, some with 9 + tip and some with 8 + tip? What difference does it make?
 
Andrew,

Surely the number of rings is dicatated by the rod's action? A poker with tip and a bit of middle would not need many rings on the bottom half whereas a through action/parabolic rod would need more rings to ensure that the line follows the curve of the blank without any angles. May be slightly old hat these days with the vast improvement in the quality of the rod rings but I still believe that a smoother line curve with more rings has to be better than less rings and the line at angles between rings when in a fighting curve.

But then again, I'm a mere simpleton so I will leave it to the experts to expound on this one!


Dave
 
I'd agree with Dave, action dependant.
There's probably a rule of thumb with carbon rods though. With bamboo fly rods its round the rod up to the nearest whole feet and add one i.e. 6'6" rod would generally have 8 rings plus the tip.

Adam
 
I'm on me 5th!

How many has your MT built Torrix have? Buy one off DL and it has two less - i'm guessing BG lies in the middle but his input would be most valued as always.
 
Getting it right involves allot of hard sums and is different for every blank. The old rod builders used to do it by fitting a tip and butt ring before pulling the blank into a 90 degree bend and taping rings at intervals which 'felt right', this was the black art of the builder and is the reason why my two Wallace Wizards have different ring spacing.

Richard Walker was the first person to apply mathematical principals to the spacing of the rings and the taper of the blank and arrive at repeatable results.

These days with cad it's all done at the design stage and all other considerations are marketing. If you make two million rods a year and you can put one less ring on each rod then you have saved the cost of not only the ring but also the whipping thread and the time it takes to whip that ring on. This is a huge saving and if you can con the angler into thinking he will get another couple of yards on his cast by having one less ring then not only have you saved money on materials you have also provided the consumer with a positive reason to buy. It's a great little scam and anglers are falling for it all over the place, it's the emperors new clothes syndrome.

There are several rod builders that could drive you insane with the theory but if you want your head completely messed up speak with Kevin Baines at the Anglers Workshop who is described on the Harrison website as, "one of the most knowledgeable people I have ever met on the physics of rod performance".
 
I have had many a conversation with Kev, ending with me a great deal more confused than when I started.
He can build a bloody good though! His Specialist is still, for me, the best medium river barbel rod money can buy.


Damian
 
David Clewer said:
Surely the number of rings is dicatated by the rod's action?
Click to expand...

You would think so - yet the same blanks are offered by different builders with 8, 9 or 10 intermediates. :confused:

Adrian Williams said:
if you want your head completely messed up speak with Kevin Baines at the Anglers Workshop.
Click to expand...

I'll avoid that conversation for now - it's pretty messed up as it is!

Stephen Bond said:
Quiver tip or standard?
Click to expand...

Standard! :)

Oh - and please state double or single leg . . . hmmm . . . . maybe another poll . . . :eek:
 
Generally around 11 rings including the tip on a 12' barbel rod.

Sometimes the customer will insist on a certain number of rings and size.

Spacings will depend on action.

Some rings (double foot) flex more than others.
Fitting of too small rings at the tip could lead to more weed clogging, but generally give less weight to the tip.
The weight of rings sometimes can be a factor - more so on lighter rods
There are other factors.
Other consideration - rings are time and money to fit.
Fit enough rings to give a smooth line pattern that follows the arc of the rod under tension without any sharp angles. Test the layout by temporary fixing the rings and then threading them up - a nice bright length of fly backing can improve visibilty during tests.Try turning the rod upside down and seeing if any line touches the blank down. Pay attention to the position of the butt ring, reel type normally used.....etc etc.
The above may have you adding or subtracting a ring or two.
So much more but as rule of thumb a ring per foot or maybe one less.

Double rings less flexible than singles but far more robust. Use 'decent rings' - lot of bull regarding hardness/braided lines.

Look at carp rods with 5 rings or less to get completely confused with certain theories.
Alternatively, just build the rod as you like it and go fishing.

Count the rings/guides 9' #6 Harrison Lorhic fly, float rods have gererally more and on and on.........

lohric.jpg


Tired now, need to rest.
Cheers
Bob
 
I know less about the science (?) of ring spacing on rods than the average Labrador. However...I do wonder if some rod builders make a deliberate attempt at forming a confusing 'mystique' about the subject, and the importance of it. Of course if they achieve that aim, it has the benefits of promoting them to all knowing experts....and selling more of their rods :rolleyes:

I also know that a couple of anglers experimented once by fixing just tip and butt rings to a blank, and went fishing....and of course it worked. Many would say that the more acute angles formed in the line where it passed through the rings of a rod equipped in that way would cause excessive line wear. Quite possibly so....but has that theory been scientifically proven? Personally, I have absolutely no idea whether that claim is fact or not....but no doubt there will be those who claim to know for certain, proof or no :p Of course there are other considerations which make fishing with a rod ringed in that way impractical...I just mention it out of interest....

So...how much does ring spacing really matter? How much difference does it actually make....honestly? For me, Bob Gill, in his post above, has been as honest as he can be without provoking an outbreak of 'rod builders war' when he suggests "Just build the rod how you like it and go fishing" as a reasonable alternative to worrying about it. Top man....'nuff said :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Last edited:
David Gauntlett said:
So...how much does ring spacing really matter? How much difference does it actually make....honestly? For me, Bob Gill, in his post above, has been as honest as he can be without provoking an outbreak of 'rod builders war' when he suggests "Just build the rod how you like it and go fishing" as a reasonable alternative to worrying about it. Top man....'nuff said :D

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

It's an interesting question which needs answering - so, for the sake of all BFW members i am now accepting donations towards 4 Torrix 12' 1.75lb blanks and the components needed to build them - i'll wrap them up with 8, 9, 10 and 11 guides + tip then go fishing with them to see which is best - lets put this to bed once and for all. :D

You're right about one thing Dave - Bob is a Top Man! Always willing to offer advice on his trade which is rare these days. Thanks Bob. :)
 
Andrew Boyne said:
It's an interesting question which needs answering - so, for the sake of all BFW members i am now accepting donations towards 4 Torrix 12' 1.75lb blanks and the components needed to build them - i'll wrap them up with 8, 9, 10 and 11 guides + tip then go fishing with them to see which is best - lets put this to bed once and for all. :D

You're right about one thing Dave - Bob is a Top Man! Always willing to offer advice on his trade which is rare these days. Thanks Bob. :)
Click to expand...

Hi Andrew, I can see you are bothered by this issue, and I hate to see people suffering, so I have decided to share your pain. If you have a second set of four rods made up from the donated money, I will do the necessary testing with the second set. Lord knows how I will find the time, but someone has to do it. No need to thank me, I understand suffering...only too glad to help. If you could add a couple of trays of garlic Spam on to the order, I could work more efficiently. A pair of 4000D reels and some line would not go amiss, but only if you can spare them.

Regards, Dave.

Cough.
 
You're a good man Dave, to offer your services for the greater good of fellow BFW'ers - i'm thinking we might need a few more blanks - to put single leg guides up against double's - come on chaps, get those donations in! :p
 
I just voted on this mind-numingly pointless, tedious, utterly irrelevant and cruelly resurrected poll :eek: I am not sure exactly what happened...I think I was close to nodding off, and I was thus caught at a vulnerable time :eek: I will never live the inner shame of this tragic mistake down :eek: I can now be listed among those who not only watch, but actually RECORD things like Coronation Street, Eastenders, Strictly come Dancing and.... horror of horrors...Big Brother...son of Big Brother...the pick of Big Brother...Big Brother's Sister.....Big.....Aaaaaagh....take me now Lord, for I have sinned...I am ready.

:D:D

Dave.
 
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