Hooks.

[Richard Isaacs]

The hook falling out in a landing net is totally different to it falling out of a fish tethered in a snag.
I have caught fish using barbless hooks .

Ian I have also caught a lot of fish on barbless hooks. and been snagged on afew occasions it’s not my first rodeo

You won’t deny that the correct way to play a fish on a barbless hook is with a consistent tight line. Obviously you should do this with any hook but on a barbless if you don’t, particularly if there is weight in the rig, your almost certainly going to loose the fish.

Now going back to being snagged, if that line does go solid despite what other people might do, I don’t keep pulling, I open the bail and depending on what type of hook Im using I get very different results.

On a barbed hook it’s very often that the fish swims through the snag and you can feel it or it starts to take line and there’s a chance that if your patient it will swim out and maybe and you’ll land it, there’s also a chance you won’t and that’s how it goes.

This doesn’t happen with barbless hooks. I know for a fact because I’ve had them swim into snags before and the second you open the bail and let that line go slack the hook shakes free. You don’t feel them kicking and there’s no chance your landing it.

Eventually in both situations you might have to pull for a break but in only 1 case is it likely that you’re going to be pulling for a break with a fish on. And I know this because I’ve used both for years. I’ve never had a fish snag me on a barbless hook that I can still feel kicking or is taking line off me when I let the line go slack and that situation is the same as if you would let the line go slack while playing one on a barbless hook.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Isn’t barbless hook causes more damage to fish mouth than barbed hook?

And when under the tension, which seems the case when fish tethered in a snag, the barbless should not come out freely, otherwise we will not catch anything with barbless hook.

As for the hook falling out of landing net, I have this happened with both barbed and barbless hooks.

No ….. a tethered fish is not going to be just putting a constant amount of pull pressure on the hook. It’s going to be fighting and shaking its head. There will be moments where the line can go slack and a very good chance of hook ejection. Much much higher than barbed.

And no I don’t believe barbs do anything to prevent mouth damage. I think that’s nonsense personally. If you’ve got a 12ft lever pulling x amount of lb’s of pressure on that hook in soft flesh it’s going to move in any way or direction it wants. Theres no physical way that tiny barb being there or not can stop it under that amount of pressure.

People are free to believe and use whatever they like regarding hooks but in my logical thinking mind the whole barbless and twisting or going into places that barbed can’t doesn’t make sense at all when there is that much pressure being pulled against it

 

[Ian Woods]

Ian I have also caught a lot of fish on barbless hooks. and been snagged on afew occasions it’s not my first rodeo

You won’t deny that the correct way to play a fish on a barbless hook is with a consistent tight line. Obviously you should do this with any hook but on a barbless if you don’t, particularly if there is weight in the rig, your almost certainly going to loose the fish.

Now going back to being snagged, if that line does go solid despite what other people might do, I don’t keep pulling, I open the bail and depending on what type of hook Im using I get very different results.

On a barbed hook it’s very often that the fish swims through the snag and you can feel it or it starts to take line and there’s a chance that if your patient it will swim out and maybe and you’ll land it, there’s also a chance you won’t and that’s how it goes.

This doesn’t happen with barbless hooks. I know for a fact because I’ve had them swim into snags before and the second you open the bail and let that line go slack the hook shakes free. You don’t feel them kicking and there’s no chance your landing it.

Eventually in both situations you might have to pull for a break but in only 1 case is it likely that you’re going to be pulling for a break with a fish on. And I know this because I’ve used both for years. I’ve never had a fish snag me on a barbless hook that I can still feel kicking or is taking line off me when I let the line go slack and that situation is the same as if you would let the line go slack while playing one on a barbless hook.

Only recently whilst bailiffing a still water water I had to struggle through undergrowth etc along a narrow banking in order to get to a carp which was tethered to an overhanging branch via a.....guess what.....a barbless hook!
Anyhow, the theory that a barbless hook will just drop out of a tetherd fishs mouth is flawed, as in reality it doesn't always happen.
I posted a picture of a barbel a bit back with a barbless hook stuck fast in it's mouth.
Here it is again....



There had been about 6ft of braid attatched to that hook, i'd just snipped it off.
I have come across fish with barbless hooks embedded in their mouths and often trailing line or braid many times.

Just for reference, the line ypu can see is mine, and my hook is in the other side of the fishs mouth.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Ian you can argue it all you want but the fact remains a barb was originally designed to prevent the hook from coming out. That was the the whole point of them and it works a treat. People might have other ideas about what barbs also do nowadays and that’s up to them.
There is always going to be an exception and nothing is 100% set in stone but if I had to put a years salary on which one would be shifted 100 times over before the other it would be barbless.

Anyone betting the other way would be very poor very quickly because that’s exactly what barbs were designed to do.

I know it because I use the dam things in sizes 12 and bigger and from experience they fall out too easily which is why I’ve reverted to squash barbs offering the compromise I want.

I ain’t got a problem with your hook choice and the reason behind it so maybe rather than speculating and assuming you understand every one else’s choice, let it go and let people who are actually in front of their own rods decide how their hook patterns are working for them.

 

[Graham Elliott]

When I have fished barbless hook waters the mouth damage on fish is far far worse than on waters that allow barbed hooks.
And a number of occasions parrot mouths are the result. When fishing with my Granddaughter on a barbless water the other day, probably a third of the fish had damage, some terribly.

That's not a dream. It is a fact.

When using barbless hooks I have seen a number of times the hook buried into the mouth right up to the eye.
Very rarely using barbed hooks.
I could image this repeated a few times and with possibly a slicing affect may cause the mouth size to reduce.

My observations relate to still waters with high levels of fish, no doubt caught various times as they have to compete to eat without caution.

Now I have to say, I see very little mouth damage to river fish on the waters I target.

 

[Ian Woods]

Ian you can argue it all you want but the fact remains a barb was originally designed to prevent the hook from coming out. That was the the whole point of them and it works a treat. People might have other ideas about what barbs also do nowadays and that’s up to them.
There is always going to be an exception and nothing is 100% set in stone but if I had to put a years salary on which one would be shifted 100 times over before the other it would be barbless.

Anyone betting the other way would be very poor very quickly because that’s exactly what barbs were designed to do.

I know it because I use the dam things in sizes 12 and bigger and from experience they fall out too easily which is why I’ve reverted to squash barbs offering the compromise I want.

I ain’t got a problem with your hook choice and the reason behind it so maybe rather than speculating and assuming you understand every one else’s choice, let it go and let people who are actually in front of their own rods decide how their hook patterns are working for them.

Lol, Richard, i'm not telling anyone what kind of hooks to use "where have you got that from"?

If you go back to my post you will see that I simply pointed out the fact that barbless hooks do not all just drop out on command, many stay firmly fixed and bed further and further in. As I said previously, people who just shrug it off after loseing a fish in some kind of snag, saying it was a barbless hook and automatically thinking the hook will simply drop out are kidding themselves.

Where have I ever said a barb wasn't made to fix a point and hold it.....I haven't.
In the past I have said that "imo" barbless hooks penetrate a lot further than a barbed hook, and that their point moves about opening up a cavity whilst playing the fish.....because it isn't fixed in a position. Possibly that's why the barbless hooks often fall out in you net head....because they have moved about and created a larger hole in which they slip out.

I repeat, "I am not telling anyone what hooks, tackle etc to use", i'm simply saying that to automatically assume a fish lost in a snag will shake out a barbless hook and swim off into the sunset holding fins with it's partner may not happen.

 

[Neil Watson]

Barbless hooks do fall out. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve landed a fish on a full barbless hook only to find I don’t need to unhook it. I’ve also found lots of barbed hooks in fish particularly in prolific areas like on the Trent. I caught one carrying 4 once which wasn’t very good.

It can’t be my imagination if I and others I’ve fished with, have had long term experience of seeing it over and over again.

There is something in that post I do agree with though and that it’s probably not wise to fish too close to snags in the first place and if you do it’s best to be on top of locked up gear designed to get them away.

I agree Richard. I stopped using barbless hooks when feeder fishing because the loss rate was significantly higher than my friend's loss rate. They were using barbed hooks

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I agree Richard. I stopped using barbless hooks when feeder fishing because the loss rate was significantly higher than my friend's loss rate. They were using barbed hooks

I use barbed hooks in 14 or below usually drennan super spades or kamazan animal for the same reasons. Also particularly with maggots as they do tend to wiggle off a barbless hook

 

[Graham Elliott]

For info When fishing a barbless only water, like Horseshoe lake, I snip a mini piece off my rubber maggots and push that onto the hook after my live ones.

This prevents the little wrigglers going awol from the hook

 

[Neil Kirk]

I haven't used a barbed hook in over 20 years and see no reason to do so. I think it is less harmfull to the fish than a barbed hook and if I am going to get a hook stuck in me I would much prefer it to be barbless. I would class a barbed hook with its barb pinched down as a barbless hook and I use Pallatrax Gripz and The Hook and can't say I have noticed much difference in terms of hooks falling out in the net.

I do not fish very close to snags on the basis that barbel probably feel secure in the snag, and I don't want to spook them in their safe place, but they will come out to feed. I feel that a barbless hook combined with a free running rig gives the fish the best possible chance if snagged.

What happens when a fish is snagged is conjecture because we just don't know - unless its in very shallow and clear water or we have a friendly scuba diver/snokeller on hand. We all want to think we are not harming the fish but if we escalate concern re fish welfare to its logical conclusion we would not be fishing at all.

 

[Graham Elliott]

Thing is Neil most places would not consider a pinched down barb as barbless. In fact many clarify that and you would be in trouble on some.

Ref damage to fish. Lots of differing opinions. I can only say that without doubt, the fish on barbless waters I have fished, have far more mouth damage than on waters where barbed are allowed.

In my mind the difference is clear. Accepting others will have totally different views.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Thing is Neil most places would not consider a pinched down barb as barbless. In fact many clarify that and you would be in trouble on some.

Ref damage to fish. Lots of differing opinions. I can only say that without doubt, the fish on barbless waters I have fished, have far more mouth damage than on waters where barbed are allowed.

In my mind the difference is clear. Accepting others will have totally different views.

It’s a good point Graham a lot of barbless only waters won’t accept a squeezed barb and I can understand that because some barbs on cheaper more brittle hooks don’t squash flat. They actually break off still leaving part of the barb exit point on the hook.
I’ve had it before particularly on treble hooks where I’ve only been able to get fully barbed and upon squeezing the barbs they’ve just snapped off. Trebles rarely get made with the same quality as expensive carp hooks that do squeeze nicely and leave a little prominent bump which I quite like.

 

[Andrew Jackson]

Ian I have also caught a lot of fish on barbless hooks. and been snagged on afew occasions it’s not my first rodeo

You won’t deny that the correct way to play a fish on a barbless hook is with a consistent tight line. Obviously you should do this with any hook but on a barbless if you don’t, particularly if there is weight in the rig, your almost certainly going to loose the fish.

Now going back to being snagged, if that line does go solid despite what other people might do, I don’t keep pulling, I open the bail and depending on what type of hook Im using I get very different results.

On a barbed hook it’s very often that the fish swims through the snag and you can feel it or it starts to take line and there’s a chance that if your patient it will swim out and maybe and you’ll land it, there’s also a chance you won’t and that’s how it goes.

This doesn’t happen with barbless hooks. I know for a fact because I’ve had them swim into snags before and the second you open the bail and let that line go slack the hook shakes free. You don’t feel them kicking and there’s no chance your landing it.

Eventually in both situations you might have to pull for a break but in only 1 case is it likely that you’re going to be pulling for a break with a fish on. And I know this because I’ve used both for years. I’ve never had a fish snag me on a barbless hook that I can still feel kicking or is taking line off me when I let the line go slack and that situation is the same as if you would let the line go slack while playing one on a barbless hook.

Completely agree. If all goes solid don't keep pulling. Many times the fish will come out. It just takes a bit of patience! You'll never know with a barbless hook!
What you might imagine as a badly snagged fish is often just under or over a branch or root. When the fish moves it's often a relatively straightforward matter to get it out. I've done this many times, particularly with Carp and have landed some big fish that you might have thought lost and would have been with the heave ho approach. A bit of patience and a calm and gentle approach can work wonders.

 

[Neil Kirk]

Thing is Neil most places would not consider a pinched down barb as barbless. In fact many clarify that and you would be in trouble on some.

Ref damage to fish. Lots of differing opinions. I can only say that without doubt, the fish on barbless waters I have fished, have far more mouth damage than on waters where barbed are allowed.

In my mind the difference is clear. Accepting others will have totally different views.

 

[Neil Kirk]

I am a member of a club that specifies barbless only and does not allow hooks with pinched down barbs ...so I use barbless.