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Hemp my way.

Personally I don't believe adding flavours help....surely the hemp seed has enough taste to attract, Hemp it is thought
Richard Howkins said:
I read about it by a bait guru. I think there is some science behind it - acid/alkaline soaks can remove anti-nutritional factors in grains. But for me, it won’t do any harm.
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Removes anti nutritional factors in grains? Wow!!! some Guru, you say in won't do any harm, but vinegar will, it's an acetic acid and I would not want to feed that to any fish....further it has no nutritional value to humans .If you can explain the 'science'I will gladly retract.
 
Neil Smart said:
Personally I don't believe adding flavours help....surely the hemp seed has enough taste to attract, Hemp it is thought

Removes anti nutritional factors in grains? Wow!!! some Guru, you say in won't do any harm, but vinegar will, it's an acetic acid and I would not want to feed that to any fish....further it has no nutritional value to humans .If you can explain the 'science'I will gladly retract.
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If you google removing phytic acid and/or nixtamaliaation you will find lots of info, some of it science & some it about hippy health food. Broadly speaking, soaking and cooking particles is the same process - it improves protein and mineral content in seeds, nuts etc.

What is the danger with acetic acid? I’ve never heard of this before. Carp anglers have been known to dip their baits in raw vinegar and other acids like n-butyric and citric have been used for years in baits. I am genuinely interested in the science - many thanks in advance
 
Richard Howkins said:
If you google removing phytic acid and/or nixtamaliaation you will find lots of info, some of it science & some it about hippy health food. Broadly speaking, soaking and cooking particles is the same process - it improves protein and mineral content in seeds, nuts etc.

What is the danger with acetic acid? I’ve never heard of this before. Carp anglers have been known to dip their baits in raw vinegar and other acids like n-butyric and citric have been used for years in baits. I am genuinely interested in the science - many thanks in advance
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So this is from the Carp forums? You must know most of the bait advice is hokus pokus, that's a new one on me soaking baits in raw vinegar, but I guess if you think it gives you the edge then it's a 'wonder' bait. Hemp seed as far as I know resemble small snails that are abundant and most fish munch on, why the need to add anything to that which is a natural substitute is beyond me. But you say 'science' what science, there is none. Your reasoning is that it increases nutritional values , no, all you need to know Barbel like hemp seed cooked in water, not too fussed if they are split or not, and certainly not with a splash of vinegar. You don't really need to cook hemp, just soak...but there you go.
 
Richard Howkins said:
Thanks. I completely agree that most bait talk and ‘science’ is rubbish, but I’m a little taken aback with that response.
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Sorry I was a little curt, but why on Earth would anyone advocate applying Vinegar to what is going to be eaten by fish to be a useful addition? The claims that Cider Vinegar is an important addition to human diet to cure everything from a Beer Belly to Flatulence is just nonsense, and imo I would not advocate feeding to fish. Herbalife and similar have made millions flogging snake oil, bin this along with the moon charts ;)
 
Playing devil's advocate a bit here... I know that the ‘ACV’ craze has certain hit the Holland & Barrett types, and its suggested health benefits (to humans) are dubious and probably scientifically unfounded (haven't looked in to this...). But to suggest it has a negative effect on fish health? Is this simply because it's an acid? If acetic acid is harmful to fish, in appropriate quantities and this is a fact I didn't know, then fair enough.

A quick google seems to show that organic acids have been added to aquaculture feed with the aim of improving farmed fish health, the results from one of the papers I found weren't conclusive, but it certainly wasn't harmful. Acetic acid increased phosphorus, which the author seemed to think was a positive...

I've used pineapple juice (high in citric acid) in hempseed when Roach and Tench fishing and I'd assume that the insect larva and life that fish feed on naturally probably contain a reasonable amount of ascorbic acid.

Funnily enough, I was going to start a thread about flavours and enhancers that we (fisherman) use and whether we catch because or in spite of them, particularly the shop bought ones (paprika, curry pastes, etc). I know that every time I flavour meat, I convince myself that the beef stock, cumin powder and marmite cocktail (most recent example) is the best thing since the boilie! But what if that beef stock cube contains something that is repellent (or worse harmful) to the fish?

An online search can help in such matters, but garlic powder (and the other obvious ones) have probably been mentioned so many times in the AT and IYCC that myth has become fact & legend without any actual research...

One study featured in a paper I read used three varieties of pellet, one a standard 'fish' pellet, one with green lipped mussel extract and another control pellet (same colour & texture) made from agar agar. They measured the mouthing time, from pick up to ingestion or rejection in Crucian Carp. The agar pellets outscored the green lipped mussel pellets... and that's a flavour I've seen stamped on baits in tackle shops aimed at Cyprinidae species...

(Fish)food for thought... The sort of thing I find fascinating...
 
If you can find Barbel they really are not fussy about scoff, the trick is finding Barbel, no amount of wonder flavours or baits will help if they are not there. Carp are different, they are treated to many concoctions and become accustomed to being spoilt, the thought that we are trying to emulate that with wild Barbel makes me a feel a bit queasy, but if you think it helps crack on, for me a fresh cube of Spam wins hand down.
 
Richard Howkins said:
Thanks. I don’t recall mentioning beer bellies or flatulence as I was talking about bait. Really not understanding the closed-minded personal attacks.
However, happy to disappear back into the shadows if this is the level of discussion on hOh coonytoaway... The false claims about the wonders of cider vinegar are real for human health, and has been debunked.If you believe it is helpful as an additive for fish, then go for it. Talking of dissapearing back into the shadows is a bit OTT, happy to let you off the science bit, if you think it helps. Don't go on my account, you have some carpy likes, all's good.
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I agree with Neil in the respect that a simple well proven approach can be as effective now as it was 30 years ago and with these particular fish you certainly don’t need to worry too much about complex flavors and additives.
However every mans fishing time is entirely their own time to do with exactly as they please.
My hemp is left natural but Some people like to flavor it and I wouldn’t say that’s “carpy” at all.

If someone had a particularly good session on flavoured hemp then it makes perfect sense they continue to use it from a confidence point of view.
Whether the flavour had influence or not, you don’t want change something that’s worked well, you keep working it!
I use a boilie that I make myself and the recipe is one that I’ve replicated exactly the same for years.
Now I’m not delusional and I know perfectly well that many other baits will work equally as well if fished in the same manner but there is no point in me changing it while it still catches the odd fish as I’d be starting my confidence building again from scratch with another bait.
If your using a bait confidently then your more than likely fishing it well and more than likely going to get results.
Stick with apple cider vinegar Rich if your putting fish in the net. It doesn’t matter if it is or isn’t having any extra effect on your hemp because your hemp will be fished well if you feel confident using it.
 
The effects that not only 'ACV' have on anything regarding health be it fish or humans is not proven, but I am sceptical about any benefit, but less sceptical about the harm it might cause to to the digestive tract. A lot of these remedies of course go back to a time when we were convinced that certain weird concoctions were good for us, my Mother In Law swore by Cider Vinegar as a health benefit, and used to take it every day, if she believed it worked than that was good enough for her.

So I guess if you think it might work in fishing, good for you, but what I take slight issue with is being quoted science, when there is no science to support any benefits.

The Bait industry has gone crazy with so many products flooding the market, and I admit to getting seduced by it too, why I have even sampled different boilies with the claim they will catch fish for those 'in a hurry' ...needless to say I am still waiting.

Of course the delivery of all these wonderful expensive baits that are piled into lakes and rivers is not really understood as to if there any damage to the aquatic life of the water, or if there is any benefit to the fish, or conversely harm.

Graham Elliot actually highlighted the potential problem with pellets, and was shot sown by certain well known anglers who I suppose were protecting their own lucrative benefits. I cannot for one minute imagine spodding a gallon or more pellet feed into a tight area in the river or lake is a benefit to the fish, it really is for selfish reasons.

I maintain the best baits are naturals, and the sort of stuff we can find in the kitchen, corn , meat and bread, but that doesn't actually help the bait hype does it?

As Barbel anglers we are not in a position normally to feed a shoal of Barbel to keep them occupied, in days gone by on the Lower Severn Steve Pope advocated we introduce at least a gallon of hemp before fishing, now many offer a different approach , as with many other rivers Barbel numbers have been decimated, and we now fish for solitary fish, sadly just fat females mostly.

John Care and others have had a torrid time on the Lower Severn since the start, John admits to eight blanks in a row, before moving to another River and catching. This should NOT be happening on the Severn, especially that location, where in the past vast shoals of Barbel abound, it is also the flagship venue for the Barbel Society, and it's dead!!!

So what is the problem can't put all the blame on the Otter can we? Maybe just maybe we should look to ourselves and consider if our baits are a factor.
 
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