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help the rivers

All very laudable (I am well up for rivers, as I have seen and fished many damned fine ones), but as I said with my # 9 posting in Colin Gordon's Upper Thames thread a few days ago (and was repeatedly branded a to-be-pitied "discontented" person), it's US - you and me - that unless we stop wanting and expecting everything ("Like yesterday - and even of it more tomorrow, like yesterday...") - water, services, roads, economic growth and a standard of living of an now unsustainable kind - then Governments of whatever hue will do to us what they did to hippies and bunnyhuggers years ago: ignore us for as long as politically possibly, then tell us to "Get off / out of your Cloud (Cuckoo Land) and Grow up".
 
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I dont often agree with what Paul writes BUT on this occasion i think he is absulutely correct..The population keeps growing and they need more water which will come from many rivers..As ive said before the water authorities need to get their act together and repair the many broken water pipes which will save untolds amount of water that is taken from the rivers but no dowt they want because that would mean their profits wouldent be as big and we dont want to upset the shareholders..:eek:
 
Yes we are an over populated island, moreso in the south east but there are suffient resources (water) to supply the consumer with more than they could ever need.
It just has me in stitches when Thames Water send their fliers out harping on about water conservation, I mean if every customer was to half their water usage, then that would make the utility company a big user than the 13 million paying customers. A few figures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Water#Leakages

Personally I'd rather try and do some good (probably fail miserably), than sit back resigned to the inevitable. Seems anglers aren't the only ones looking for change, old but still relevant:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4777507.stm

Like I've been saying for a considerable time, water companies are not the only large scale abstractors guilty of legalised malpractice.
British Waterways are equally guilty, reliant on laws dating back to the late 18th century. Guess we should leave laws unchanged, no matter how archaic obsolete and lacking in virtue for todays Britain.
 
If the Water Companies were 'forced' to invest their profits into creating de-salination plants by the seaside or inland and treat sea water, there would be no problems and the rivers would keep their water and hopefully recover.
Again, there should be an investigation as to whether UK river fresh water is being sold underhand and exported by empty purpose lined oil tankers to the Middle East (after they have dropped their oil load to the UK) for irrigation purposes or other. Precious Oil for Precious Water.
 
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"This summer the Government will publish its White Paper on Water. This is an important opportunity for the coalition to set out its priorities for safeguarding the health of our rivers and protecting freshwater wildlife for the future.

We believe the Government must include two key commitments in this Water White Paper in order to protect our rivers. These are to:

Set out a clear timetable to restore the flow of our rivers and end unsustainable levels of abstraction, with action in the 2015-2020 water company investment period.
Reduce the impact of agricultural diffuse pollution on rivers and wetlands by ensuring more effective enforcement of environmental regulations, encouraging water companies to work with farmers to reduce pollution of drinking water sources, and by changing farming policy to reward land managers who deliver public benefits - including clean rivers and thriving wildlife.
Many voices are harder to ignore, so we are asking all of the Our Rivers supporters to write to the Minister responsible for water, Richard Benyon, asking him to safeguard our rivers for the future. It’s easy to do and only takes a few minutes – ACT NOW SEND A LETTER TO THE MINISTER –

You can...
Send a letter to the Minister
Learn more about the Water White Paper and its importance
Read more about our specific ask on abstraction
Read more about our specific ask on diffuse pollution"
http://www.ourrivers.org.uk

and to find out what you can do as an individual to use less water (every drop helps)
click this http://assets.wwf.org.uk/downloads/r...n_the_edge.pdf

Clever words on here are all well and good but the Government don't log on to BFW .
 
Craig Wood said:
...the water authorities need to get their act together and repair the many broken water pipes which will save untolds amount of water that is taken from the rivers .... ..:eek:
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About 15 years ago I developed a decision support system for one of the large UK water authorities. From what we found out once working, it seemed about they were suffering up to about 25% water loss through broken pipes (variations across the major area of the country) ...yet the funding to repair/replace the pipes was sadly lacking - the assumption was that at an OFWAT evel was there was a supply out there to cover the loss. From discussions with other people working in the area 25% water loss (say across one of five counties they serve) is not a big deal to the authorities but the effect on minimising it would be considerable. Downside is the cost to repair/replace the supply pipes is considerable.
 
Paul Boote said:
All very laudable (I am well up for rivers, as I have seen and fished many damned fine ones), but as I said with my # 9 posting in Colin Gordon's Upper Thames thread a few days ago (and was repeatedly branded a to-be-pitied "discontented" person), it's US - you and me - that unless we stop wanting and expecting everything ("Like yesterday - and even of it more tomorrow, like yesterday...") - water, services, roads, economic growth and a standard of living of an now unsustainable kind - then Governments of whatever hue will do to us what they did to hippies and bunnyhuggers years ago: ignore us for as long as politically possibly, then tell us to "Get off / out of your Cloud (Cuckoo Land) and Grow up".
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Like a proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand, as I was saying..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13398311

"But we have our shareholders to think of ... repairing pipes is very costly ... gas and oil exploration and 'improving services for our [captive] customers' near extortionate...".

Yeah right.
 
Ray Walton said:
If the Water Companies were 'forced' to invest their profits into creating de-salination plants by the seaside or inland and treat sea water, there would be no problems and the rivers would keep their water and hopefully recover.
Again, there should be an investigation as to whether UK river fresh water is being sold underhand and exported by empty purpose lined oil tankers to the Middle East (after they have dropped their oil load to the UK) for irrigation purposes or other. Precious Oil for Precious Water.
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I agree with your comments about desalination plants. However your comments about oil tankers carrying water are just not possible. International laws under the Marpol 73/78 regulations make it impossible for water to be carried in cargo tanks without being treated as effluent and most tankers these days have separate ballast water systems as few terminals now have facilities to accept contaminated water. I speak from 26 years experience in the shipping industry. The Middle Eastern countries have invested heavily in desal plants to get over the problem.

Cheers,

Stuart
 
I understand that some countries around the globe 'do' export bulk freshwater to others by purpose built tankers and other means. Some countries export freshwater via the tankers ballast tanks instead of them being filled with the usual contaminated Sea Water, which carries alien species etc and is considered high risk when discharged back in the home port area before docking. As most UK water companies are owned by foreign companies outside of the UK, i am not convinced that that UK 'fully treated' freshwater is not being diverted away from the public supply and exported abroad by one means or another. Although it may be banned in some countries as you mention, it does not mean that it is not happening underhand and kept from public knowledge.
I know a while ago it was debated and considered, but was thought to be too expensive and dropped from further discussion. However, some countries still do it and needs someone to spill the beans in the UK if it is happening.
 
Think it comes down to economy of scale tbh Ray. It's just economically worthwhile to ship freshwater to the Middle East. Potable water in most UK ports is only a few pounds a tonne and the average size tanker on a Middle East run can carry between 80k to
250k tonnes. I don't know of any facility in the UK capable of loading that amount of water at the rate required to load one of these tankers. Mains water pressure generally gives a rate of about 150 m3/hr.
Regarding alien species the damage has already been done as can be seen in this country by the presence of mitten crabs and regs are now in place for vessels to change their ballast water a number of times between ports to minimise the potential for transportation of alien species.
 
Paul Boote said:
Like a proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand, as I was saying..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13398311

"But we have our shareholders to think of ... repairing pipes is very costly ... gas and oil exploration and 'improving services for our [captive] customers' near extortionate...".

Yeah right.
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Might not be many U-turns in Essex (or in Westminster), but there is many a "Shaddup!".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/14/historic-climate-change-deal-agreed-chris-huhne

Yeah right.
 
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The reason that i brought up the subject of river fresh water export is that a water company down here sells a third of its yearly abstraction from a major protected river to a private company that is based on the docks. This water supply has a 'Special Licence' attached to it and is fully treated. It is worth £6 million to the water company. The 'Special Licence' supply operates 24/7 all year and is seperate from the domestic supply.
The private company however to which the treated water is sold, has its own abstraction point to where it abstracts 300,000 tonnes of seawater a day and states that it fulfills its operational requirements.
Another Water Company also supplies the same Private Company based on the docks with another freshwater supply from the protected River Test.
 
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Stuart Brookes said:
Ray have a read of the article on the link, quite interesting reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/06/ship-fresh-water-alaska-india
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There are a few others where one of them mentions the export of water from the Phillipines to Saudia Arabia via empty oil tankers Freshwater Ballast and piped off at the docks and used for irrigation purposes. The Water Company's parent Company based in the Phillipines also own/owned other Water Companies based in the UK.
It cant be that expensive and would be very economical and worthwhile for an offloaded empty Saudi oil tanker to load up with treated fresh water from the UK or other country, instead of going back empty!
As said, possibly 'Water for Oil'?
The first i heard of this practice was about 5 years ago and the rumour was sourced to a worker at the docks who seemingly spilled the beans on what was going on. The information mentioned irrigation and watering of golf courses in SA.
 
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No doubt the farmers and water companies wiil be complaining about them and the UK authorities will soon be issuing licences to shoot the mudlarks.
 
Paul Boote said:
Drought so deep in some areas that swallows and martins can't find material to build their nests. Public being asked to put out some mud for them - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/16/rspb-public-mud-birds
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Back in 1976 in similar drought conditions the only 'mud' that the swallows could find in a village called Shorne was on a local building site around the cement mixers. Needless to say they used it and constructed cement nests. I guess the nests are still there:D
 
But it is not as important as whether to use two rods or one, what landing net to use or which shoes to wear in summer.
Anglers are idiots.
 
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