Chris Turnbull
Senior Member
Out of interest, I've always considered that, along with roach and rudd, 2lb is the magical number above which a grayling can be classed as being a specimen. What do you think?
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Grayling fishing season.
- Thread starter Colin Gordon
- Start date
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
I caught a 2 pounder from the Teme last month...so I agree with you Chris!
Actually I think it rather depends on where you catch them. Two pounderers aren't that unusual these days on the Teme (can't be as I caught one!) in certain areas. But it was the only one of that size out of a considerable number caught this season.
I always used to think of specimens as 3/4 the weight of a record fish. Grayling go to near 5 lb's (I think) so I don't think 2 lb would count. I am happy with a 2 lb grayling, but would be ecstatic with a 2 lb Roach and equally ecstatic if I took a 2 lb Grayling on a dry fly).
Actually I think it rather depends on where you catch them. Two pounderers aren't that unusual these days on the Teme (can't be as I caught one!) in certain areas. But it was the only one of that size out of a considerable number caught this season.
I always used to think of specimens as 3/4 the weight of a record fish. Grayling go to near 5 lb's (I think) so I don't think 2 lb would count. I am happy with a 2 lb grayling, but would be ecstatic with a 2 lb Roach and equally ecstatic if I took a 2 lb Grayling on a dry fly).
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Chris Jones
Senior Member
I'll go with that. Just the same as a double figure barbel wouldn't be considered particularly special from many rivers from Trent southwards. A double from many of the Yorkshire rivers would be considered fairly special.
George Lockhart
Senior Member
depends on where you catch Grayling chris but anything above 2lbs in a Northern River is classed as excellent and a 3lbs fish is a specimen. only managed 2 from a northern river over 3lbs and 2 from the Wiltshire avon when I used to be stationed down there.
But on the other hand if you are lucky enough to fish in certain rivers in scotland and conditions are right, this year I know of 2 anglers who have nearly put the scales around to 4lbs on the nymph
now that is top class.
But on the other hand if you are lucky enough to fish in certain rivers in scotland and conditions are right, this year I know of 2 anglers who have nearly put the scales around to 4lbs on the nymph
now that is top class.
Chris Turnbull
Senior Member
The whole thing is highly subjective I know (and possibly pointless too), but I can't easily accept 3/4's of the weight of the current record as being the mark of a specimen. The record roach for example is 4.04 and the record grayling (as far as I can see) is 4.03. Surely a 3 lb roach, which is 3/4's of the weight of the record, isn't merely a specimen, it's a bloody huge fish. Surely the same applies with grayling?
If 3/4's of the record weight is the mark of a specimen, then tench have to be over 10lb to qualify, bream over 15lb, barbel over 15lb and pike over 30lb. For most specialist anglers fish of these sizes are fish of a lifetime, not merely specimen size.
I'm now trying to imagine what it would be like to play a 4lb grayling on a match rod and standard trotting gear in a strong flowing river? Almost impossible I would think?
If 3/4's of the record weight is the mark of a specimen, then tench have to be over 10lb to qualify, bream over 15lb, barbel over 15lb and pike over 30lb. For most specialist anglers fish of these sizes are fish of a lifetime, not merely specimen size.
I'm now trying to imagine what it would be like to play a 4lb grayling on a match rod and standard trotting gear in a strong flowing river? Almost impossible I would think?
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Colin Gordon
No Longer a Member
As you said Chris specimens of any species are highly subjective but IMO specimens as a guide are roughly half the record weight i.e 2lb for roach and rudd, 4.5 - 5lb for chub etc...
Three quarters the weight of the record would surely be for most anglers prove to be not only a fish of a life time but maybe even just aspirational.
Three quarters the weight of the record would surely be for most anglers prove to be not only a fish of a life time but maybe even just aspirational.
In my opinion a speemin size has little to do wth a percentage of the record
i think it has more to do with the water that you fish,you can only catch what is there
ie: the river that i mainly fish the Teme,a 1lb 8oz Roach would be regarded as a specemin as would any chub over 5lb,i know of only 3 genuine 6lb plus Chub off the river though some anglers claim to have had half a dozen of them
A 2lb Grayling would also be a specemin from the river
If you are lucky enough to fish the Dorset Stour or Hampshire Avon week in week out then a 5lb chub probably would'nt even see the wiegh sling
horses for courses
mike
i think it has more to do with the water that you fish,you can only catch what is there
ie: the river that i mainly fish the Teme,a 1lb 8oz Roach would be regarded as a specemin as would any chub over 5lb,i know of only 3 genuine 6lb plus Chub off the river though some anglers claim to have had half a dozen of them
A 2lb Grayling would also be a specemin from the river
If you are lucky enough to fish the Dorset Stour or Hampshire Avon week in week out then a 5lb chub probably would'nt even see the wiegh sling
horses for courses
mike
Colin Gordon
No Longer a Member
Hence, "subjective".
Pete Marshall
Senior Member
When I said,
If I get a barbel over 8lb from the Teme I have had a very good day...over 10 lb and I have had a specimen. With Grayling I don't consider that I have caught a specimen grayling at 2 lbs, just a good fish, in the way a 8lb + barbel is a good fish. In that if you fish the Teme regularly using basic tactics for either of these fish you can expect to get one of these size in a season.
I don't consider myself a "specimen" angler as I don't set out to catch "big" fish. I just set out to catch a particular species using a particular method that happens to please me, rather than using the best methods for big fish as a "specimen" angler would do.
All completely subjective, no particular logic!
The way the Roach have gone from the Teme means that it is a very good day if I catch any at all from the Teme! Not that I deliberately target them any nore, mainly due to how rare they have got.
I should have made it clear that by this I mean the record for the river, rather than the country or even the world! I tend to think i terms of what is in a particular river rather than try and fish against some criteria that is meaningless like a national record.
If I get a barbel over 8lb from the Teme I have had a very good day...over 10 lb and I have had a specimen. With Grayling I don't consider that I have caught a specimen grayling at 2 lbs, just a good fish, in the way a 8lb + barbel is a good fish. In that if you fish the Teme regularly using basic tactics for either of these fish you can expect to get one of these size in a season.
I don't consider myself a "specimen" angler as I don't set out to catch "big" fish. I just set out to catch a particular species using a particular method that happens to please me, rather than using the best methods for big fish as a "specimen" angler would do.
All completely subjective, no particular logic!
The way the Roach have gone from the Teme means that it is a very good day if I catch any at all from the Teme! Not that I deliberately target them any nore, mainly due to how rare they have got.
Chris Turnbull
Senior Member
It is possible to go round in circles with this......
A couple of years ago I had several 9 and 10 lb tench in a day. In my opinion these were all specimen sized fish. However none of them were huge fish for that water.
Another water I once fished provided me with a fair catch of 6 to 8lb bream. All of them were decent fish for the water but I would not personally consider any of them to be specimen fish.
When I was a lad the very idea of there being specimen sized fish gave me something to aspire to. Therefore, while it is subjective, I still think that the idea of nationally recognised specimen sized fish has some value. The fact is that there are waters capable of producing specimen sized fish while others are not...... to my mind an above average sized fish from a hungry water would qualify as being a big fish for that water, but it could hardly be classed as a specimen.
I knew this question would get complicated but i think 50% of the national record is about right. Some waters just hold more specimens than others.... and some waters don't hold any!
A couple of years ago I had several 9 and 10 lb tench in a day. In my opinion these were all specimen sized fish. However none of them were huge fish for that water.
Another water I once fished provided me with a fair catch of 6 to 8lb bream. All of them were decent fish for the water but I would not personally consider any of them to be specimen fish.
When I was a lad the very idea of there being specimen sized fish gave me something to aspire to. Therefore, while it is subjective, I still think that the idea of nationally recognised specimen sized fish has some value. The fact is that there are waters capable of producing specimen sized fish while others are not...... to my mind an above average sized fish from a hungry water would qualify as being a big fish for that water, but it could hardly be classed as a specimen.
I knew this question would get complicated but i think 50% of the national record is about right. Some waters just hold more specimens than others.... and some waters don't hold any!
Chris Jones
Senior Member
Without driving at least a good 100 miles I'll never even have the chance of fishing for a tench that size, let alone actually catching one.
National records for the vast bulk of species mean absolutely nothing the further north you go. Run of the mill for many of you would be fish of a lifetime if caught up here. The only real exception I can think of are chub
Ian Crook
Senior Member
Chris I totally agree with youin that it cannot be dependant on the water, I fish a small water which holds loads of 1lb Tench, that is about the biggest you'll catch but also the samllest you'll catch, they are most definitely not specimens in anyone's language.........
A specimen angler will go out of his way to find specimen fish, fish waters which are either known to contain or have the potential to contain specimen fish, it is a target to aspire.
It is also wrong however to say that 50% or 75% of the record should be the norm, there has to be a dependancy on the number of fsih to target of a certain species, for example I personally would not consider a Barbel of less than 12lbs or a grayling of less than 2lbs to be a specimen.
A specimen angler will go out of his way to find specimen fish, fish waters which are either known to contain or have the potential to contain specimen fish, it is a target to aspire.
It is also wrong however to say that 50% or 75% of the record should be the norm, there has to be a dependancy on the number of fsih to target of a certain species, for example I personally would not consider a Barbel of less than 12lbs or a grayling of less than 2lbs to be a specimen.
Chris Jones
Senior Member
The snag here is where does it end? Individual waters have been discounted. County level has been discounted. Many seem to be talking nationally but why stop there? Why not go international? I'm sure that there will be some country where a 2lb Grayling or a 12lb Barbel would be small beer.
The carp boys seem pretty comfortable in accepting that a thirty from the north of the UK is an exceptional fish while it's fairly commonplace down south and a tiddler in France.
Conrad Farlow
Senior Member
Actually Chris I know a water with 9lb tench in on your way to work! My best from there was 8lb 12 oz and I had around a dozen over 7lb in 3 months in 2008. You have to wade through a lot of small fish from 12oz up though as recruitment has been good for the last 4 or 5 years. There are some carp but not many, so carp type tactics may help sort the better fish, I wasn't fishing for specimens just general float fishing for Tench at the time. I was really surprised at the bigguns. It's so good I might make the 180 mile round trip - oh and BTW hardly anyone fishes it.
Funnily enough I had a 2lb 10oz grayling within about 4 miles of the place!
Conrad
Funnily enough I had a 2lb 10oz grayling within about 4 miles of the place!
Conrad
Chris Jones
Senior Member
I can think of one brilliant tench water that I fished years ago, as far as I'm aware there's no fishing on it now. The bit about the grayling has me puzzled about the location of the water you are talking about though. I can think of a couple of possible waters on the A19 between Thirsk and York but I can't think of anything on my way to work.:confused:
I'd be well happy to catch a tench or two over five pounds. Not something I've seen on a regular basis over the years.