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Flooding? Here's the solution!

I think the managed reintroduction of the European Beaver to certain parts of the Uk is a great idea, look at the science.

Castor fiber is a regarded in ecological terms as a 'keystone' species and its restoration is likely to be extremely beneficial to a wide range of species and riparian habitats. Ok you wouldn't want them in intensively managed systems such as the Somerset Levels or the Fens (the habitat is unsuitable anyway) but in smaller rivers and tributaries there is a great deal of evidence that their presence is beneficial to salmonid species and that by damming etc they can help to hold up water and potentially reduce downstream flooding.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I think the managed reintroduction of the European Beaver to certain parts of the Uk is a great idea, look at the science.

Castor fiber is a regarded in ecological terms as a 'keystone' species and its restoration is likely to be extremely beneficial to a wide range of species and riparian habitats. Ok you wouldn't want them in intensively managed systems such as the Somerset Levels or the Fens (the habitat is unsuitable anyway) but in smaller rivers and tributaries there is a great deal of evidence that their presence is beneficial to salmonid species and that by damming etc they can help to hold up water and potentially reduce downstream flooding.
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"Beneficial to salmonid species"? Not everyone seems to think so.
 
From a barbel angling perspective it would depend on the safeguards that are allowed to local fishery managers. For instance, I think beavers could dam the Loddon, which is fairly narrow in most places, and this could have a devastating effect on the barbel fishing. I can imagine the outcry from the urban weekend "naturalists" if anyone was to destroy one of their lodges. Imagine what would happen if anyone were to trap one and relocate it or, heaven forbid, shoot one.
 
This might be me being thick it wouldn't be the first time :eek: but if beavers built dams that would hold the water back wouldn't that make it worse for those upstream of the dams? with the amount of rain we have had where weirs have disappeared under the river it being so high the same would surely happen to their dams.

We have seen the problems that can happen from species being reintroduced do we really need another long extinct in this country to be reintroduced?
 
Graham Young said:
This might be me being thick it wouldn't be the first time :eek: but if beavers built dams that would hold the water back wouldn't that make it worse for those upstream of the dams? with the amount of rain we have had where weirs have disappeared under the river it being so high the same would surely happen to their dams.

We have seen the problems that can happen from species being reintroduced do we really need another long extinct in this country to be reintroduced?
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Graham - the small leaky dams that European Beavers create in the upstream tributaries and side-streams slow down the flow of water ensuring a slower release into the main river during times of flood, thus reducing the volume of peak flood water entering the downstream catchment. Generally due to topography etc the upstream waters are much less liable to flood.

I can well understand your concern about re-introductions and it would be naive to think that the all of the impacts would be positive, however most of the papers I have read suggest that the positive ecological impacts massively outweigh the negative ones.
 
Nigel Gray said:
"Beneficial to salmonid species"? Not everyone seems to think so.
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Interesting. One of the papers they quote is Hagglund & Sjoberg, 1999: Effects of beaver dams on the fish fauna of forest streams. Forest Ecology and Management, 115 (2-3) 259-266. This paper noted that beaver ponds provided trout with habitats that didn't exist elsewhere and that the trout found in beaver ponds were bigger in average size than those found in the other parts of the stream.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Interesting. One of the papers they quote is Hagglund & Sjoberg, 1999: Effects of beaver dams on the fish fauna of forest streams. Forest Ecology and Management, 115 (2-3) 259-266. This paper noted that beaver ponds provided trout with habitats that didn't exist elsewhere and that the trout found in beaver ponds were bigger in average size than those found in the other parts of the stream.
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That paper also noted that 'Brown trouts were more common in reference sections than in beaver-affected sections, while the opposite tended to be the case for minnows'
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Indeed it did, buts that's not necessarily a negative impact is it ? Particularly if the overall the biomass is greater - that's what the following paper found.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
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Joe, I get the feeling that you think I'm anti the re-introduction of beavers per se which is completely not the case.

If it can be scientifically proved that the re-introduction of beavers will improve the overall fragile ecology of our upland waters then I'll back it 100%.

Up to now virtually everything I have read with regard to the re-introduction of beavers has been published by 'pro beaver groups' or 'fishing interests'. Personally I treat both camps with equal salt; they both have vested interests, all I ask for is genuine scientific facts. Unfortunately it appears that the search for independent funding on both fishery and riverine research is a waste of time.

But for some group(s) to use the current flooding as justification for pushing their own single topic agenda in the media ****es me right off. :)
 
Nigel Gray said:
But for some group(s) to use the current flooding as justification for pushing their own single topic agenda in the media ****es me right off. :)
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Blimey Andy, **** isn't swearing.

OEO

****
Line breaks: ****
Pronunciation: /pɪs /
• vulgar slang
VERB
[NO OBJECT]
1urinate.
SYNONYMS
1.1 [WITH OBJECT] discharge (something, especially blood) when urinating.
1.2 (**** oneself/one's pants) urinate involuntarily (often used hyperbolically to indicate hilarity or intense fear).
1.3 (**** down) rain heavily.
NOUN
[MASS NOUN]
Back to top
1urine.
1.1 [IN SINGULAR] an act of urinating.
Phrases

be (or go) on the ****
British be engaged in (or go on) a heavy drinking session.
not have a pot to **** in
North American be very poor.
a piece of ****
British a very easy thing to do.
**** in the wind
do something that is ineffective or a waste of time.
take the **** (out of someone/thing)
British mock someone or something.
Phrasal verbs

**** about/around
British spend time doing stupid or unimportant things.
**** off
[USUALLY IN IMPERATIVE] go away.
**** someone off
annoy someone.
SYNONYMS
**** on/over
show complete contempt for.
**** something up
spoil or ruin something.
Origin

Middle English: from Old French ****er, probably of imitative origin.
 
Nigel Gray said:
Joe, I get the feeling that you think I'm anti the re-introduction of beavers per se which is completely not the case.

If it can be scientifically proved that the re-introduction of beavers will improve the overall fragile ecology of our upland waters then I'll back it 100%.

Up to now virtually everything I have read with regard to the re-introduction of beavers has been published by 'pro beaver groups' or 'fishing interests'. Personally I treat both camps with equal salt; they both have vested interests, all I ask for is genuine scientific facts. Unfortunately it appears that the search for independent funding on both fishery and riverine research is a waste of time.

But for some group(s) to use the current flooding as justification for pushing their own single topic agenda in the media ****es me right off. :)
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Nigel,

I hadn't really presumed anything about your stance on this issue. I'm inclined to agree with comments regarding vested interests, although it does appear to me that the Knapdale beaver trial appears to be taking the correct approach, so far.

I do agree with your point about using the current flooding crisis to promote beaver reintroductions, very poor timing and also not particularly relevant to the current situation in Somerset Levels or Thames Valley.

For a reasonably balanced view of the available evidence, see this briefing paper by the Salmon & Trout Association.

http://www.salmon-trout.org/pdf/Briefing Paper Beavers Charity.pdf

Cheers,

Joe
 
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