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First time on the Wye

Neil Smart said:
The Teme is a river the barbel congregated to spawn, the lack of suitable habitat and the ridiculous June 16 th start and if you wish target spawning fish and trample the redds is in your opinion nothing to do with us in your opinion...what?
Tell that sort of thinking to a well managed chalk stream trout fishery .
Of course predation plays a huge part in decline, but nothing is done to counter that because we don't manage / care do we?
Of course any spawning barbel will not return if it is not a suitable environment.
The decline was catastrophic and yet there is no conversations within angling as to how to fix it, just the odd barbel pictured on fb to fool us it's all ok.
Can you imagine a tackle shop sending folk to a swim that was hot and what bait to use and where to cast? These areas our vital for the future and should be left at least until well after spawning.
Same as Fladbury on the WA a hugely important weir peg for spawning barbel and chub gets hammered bivvies etc and all day and night. These places should be out of bounds but try that at the AGM as an idea?
I could take you to the Bristol Avon and show similar, all unprotected...and we wonder why our sport is in decline and I wonder why those that 'liked' your rebuff of my post have the answers then.
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Neil,

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

The OP shared an post about their first trip to the Wye, one that would be helpful and of interest to other visitors to the Wye. The thread then, somewhat inevitably, contained some discussion about Woody's and the advice they can provide to visitors to the Wye, this seems to have set you off on one with you insinuating that angling pressure is damaging fish stocks on the Wye, yet in the the past, you yourself have advised people on here to visit Woody's as well as the Wye and Usk foundation.

I haven't ever heard anyone claim before that angling pressure is damaging the fish stocks on the Wye, nor have I heard anyone ever claim that the angling pressure is the reason for the decline of barbel in the Teme. The water quality issues facing the Wye have been well-documented in recent years, and the reasons behind the the decline in the Teme are likely to be multi-faceted (climate change (floods), water quality, predation). To cite angling pressure is simplistic and reductionist thinking, and lacks any evidence to back it up.

Somewhat ironically there is a thread running on here about the decline in independent tackle shops and the trend towards total monopoly by you-know-who. So I say hats off to Woody's for helping visiting anglers to the Wye Valley, while attracting customers to their shop to put money in the till. And of course it can be argued that these visitors to the Wye will help shine a light on the known water quality issues.

Cheers,

Joe
 
The Teme.

At this moment I am on the last day of a weeks holiday , staying at a cottage on the Teme.
I have fished every day for a few hours, mostly evenings or early mornings, or both , spending maybe a max of 6-8 hours a day with lines in the water.
I have chosen my swims ( BAA and a private stretch) to be not the easiest access , spike and rope required etc. One rod , roaming prebaited swims .

I have also fished twice on what appear to be more popular swims with two rods .

I am not putting myself forward as any kind of expert, but I can say that in the time I have fished this week I have managed a total of 3 barbel of about 6 or 7 pounds each and probably 15 or so chub to about 4 pounds , some with damage to fins .
I will also say that whilst sitting quietly behind the rod I have had multiple sightings of Cormorants in groups of 3 or 4 birds, swimming, diving and taking silverfish,several mink patrolling the bank and also noticed that the river is showing signs of heavy algea growth and pollution I have not seen in my previous visits.

The river is pretty low atm and weather quite warm and sunny during the day so that may have something to do with the lack of fish showing .
My last visit last year on a rising river was in all truth much the same although I did have more Barbel ( up to about 8-1/2 lbs ) due I think to the fresh water pushing through .

I can also say that during this week I saw two anglers on a BAA stretch complaining that in 3 years they had never seen a Barbel caught, but had done ok with Grayling on the float . I also spoke with a local lure angler who had started targetting Perch because the hours spent trying to catch a Barbel were in his opinion wasted .In all his visits trting to catch a barbel he had not been successful.

Make of that what you will, I have no experience of fishing the Teme in its heyday . I have enjoyed my time here and find the river a challenge . Much harder than the Yorkshire rivers I am used to .

I will be back , it is a beautiful river in stunning countryside , as others have said there is more to angling than just catching fish . Wildlife abounds and I spent as much time enjoying this as I did the fishing .

David
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Neil,

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

The OP shared an post about their first trip to the Wye, one that would be helpful and of interest to other visitors to the Wye. The thread then, somewhat inevitably, contained some discussion about Woody's and the advice they can provide to visitors to the Wye, this seems to have set you off on one with you insinuating that angling pressure is damaging fish stocks on the Wye, yet in the the past, you yourself have advised people on here to visit Woody's as well as the Wye and Usk foundation.

I haven't ever heard anyone claim before that angling pressure is damaging the fish stocks on the Wye, nor have I heard anyone ever claim that the angling pressure is the reason for the decline of barbel in the Teme. The water quality issues facing the Wye have been well-documented in recent years, and the reasons behind the the decline in the Teme are likely to be multi-faceted (climate change (floods), water quality, predation). To cite angling pressure is simplistic and reductionist thinking, and lacks any evidence to back it up.

Somewhat ironically there is a thread running on here about the decline in independent tackle shops and the trend towards total monopoly by you-know-who. So I say hats off to Woody's for helping visiting anglers to the Wye Valley, while attracting customers to their shop to put money in the till. And of course it can be argued that these visitors to the Wye will help shine a light on the known water quality issues.

Cheers,

Joe
Click to expand...
i agree totally Joe .
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Neil,

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

The OP shared an post about their first trip to the Wye, one that would be helpful and of interest to other visitors to the Wye. The thread then, somewhat inevitably, contained some discussion about Woody's and the advice they can provide to visitors to the Wye, this seems to have set you off on one with you insinuating that angling pressure is damaging fish stocks on the Wye, yet in the the past, you yourself have advised people on here to visit Woody's as well as the Wye and Usk foundation.

I haven't ever heard anyone claim before that angling pressure is damaging the fish stocks on the Wye, nor have I heard anyone ever claim that the angling pressure is the reason for the decline of barbel in the Teme. The water quality issues facing the Wye have been well-documented in recent years, and the reasons behind the the decline in the Teme are likely to be multi-faceted (climate change (floods), water quality, predation). To cite angling pressure is simplistic and reductionist thinking, and lacks any evidence to back it up.

Somewhat ironically there is a thread running on here about the decline in independent tackle shops and the trend towards total monopoly by you-know-who. So I say hats off to Woody's for helping visiting anglers to the Wye Valley, while attracting customers to their shop to put money in the till. And of course it can be argued that these visitors to the Wye will help shine a light on the known water quality issues.

Cheers,

Joe
Click to expand...
Head in the sand eh? As I said the game fisheries have a sensible approach to the habitat and not least angling pressure, we don't, that's the crux of it, deny it it and point it any direction you want but the evidence is for all to see.
As far as me recommending Woody's what? Even if I did pinpointing a swim and x marks the spot is beyond anything I could ever agree with, so consider that.
As far as Wye and Usk well at least they have a rod limit and don't draw the Barbel's holding areas just yet.
Of course if you read what I say I am not solely citing angling pressure but it is a factor, especially smaller rivers, and I am astounded you again take issue with what is to me at least common sense.
As far as encouraging folk to come...do me a favour that is the problem too, the Wye valley invented package tours and holidays, not some badly drawn map to go hook a Barbel.
Whatever next fishing guides?
Cheers,
Neil.
 
Gavin Burt said:
On my local waters it’s “40 match anglers each and every Saturday”.

Once the clocks change it barely gives pleasure anglers and time to fish.
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Yes and there were matches on the Teme, such a delicate habitat to have such, no wonder it fell into decline, and then the predation picked off the stragglers.
 
Gavin Burt said:
On my local waters it’s “40 match anglers each and every Saturday”.

Once the clocks change it barely gives pleasure anglers and time to fish.
Click to expand...

(Sorry, this appears to be partly duplicated.)

How does that put 'pressure' on the fish?

And @neil. You can argue all you like about how anglers put pressure on the fish, but unless you define what you mean by that, it's hard to make reasonable sense of your arguments. And I'm open-minded about the subject and keen to learn.
.
.
 
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Gavin Burt said:
Any danger of starting a thread specifically on “pressure” ?
Click to expand...

I'd welcome that, because people are using the term without apparently explaining what they mean by it. Unless they do, it's hard to separate the myths from the facts... and I'm interested in the facts.

I'm not suggesting this as a provocation (because I'm here to learn, not argue about something about which I have limited knowledge), but perhaps Neil can start the thread, given that he's obviously so passionate about it.

If not, I'll do it, but only as a thread starter - I have no angle on this... yet.
.
 
As a link to this thread, looking out this morning there are a couple of chaps from the EA doing a flood survey of the Teme. No idea if what they find will have any bearing on the Teme as a fishery .
They appear to be serious as they are in waders, and using GPS surveying equipment along with float tubes and making copious notes .
I saw them yesterday further upstream .
4B61D042-DBFB-407F-B908-3AA421C40F2B.jpeg

David
 
Neil Smart said:
Head in the sand eh? As I said the game fisheries have a sensible approach to the habitat and not least angling pressure, we don't, that's the crux of it, deny it it and point it any direction you want but the evidence is for all to see.
As far as me recommending Woody's what? Even if I did pinpointing a swim and x marks the spot is beyond anything I could ever agree with, so consider that.
As far as Wye and Usk well at least they have a rod limit and don't draw the Barbel's holding areas just yet.
Of course if you read what I say I am not solely citing angling pressure but it is a factor, especially smaller rivers, and I am astounded you again take issue with what is to me at least common sense.
As far as encouraging folk to come...do me a favour that is the problem too, the Wye valley invented package tours and holidays, not some badly drawn map to go hook a Barbel.
Whatever next fishing guides?
Cheers,
Neil.
Click to expand...
I'm still not sure what your point is Neil?

Are you arguing that barbel fishing on the Wye is a serious threat to the rivers barbel population? If so, more or less than the threat posed by the ever deteriorating water quality? And should anglers visiting the Wye be discouraged?
 
If you guy’s don’t mind me deviating from the original thread a tad……
The Teme…
The river in 90’s had angling pressure, floods, low summer levels, otters and mink a plenty. It was FULL of fish.
What changed could be seen with your own two eyes, it was the environment.
I spent ALOT of time along the middle reaches. There was an abundance of aquatic plants, especially White Water-Crowfoot.
By 2000 it was all gone. And so we’re the Barbel ( mostly).
I am no expert on river health but it seems obvious to me that the river was in a fundamentally different condition.
Thanks,
G.T.
 
Graham Tremble said:
If you guy’s don’t mind me deviating from the original thread a tad……
The Teme…
The river in 90’s had angling pressure, floods, low summer levels, otters and mink a plenty. It was FULL of fish.
What changed could be seen with your own two eyes, it was the environment.
I spent ALOT of time along the middle reaches. There was an abundance of aquatic plants, especially White Water-Crowfoot.
By 2000 it was all gone. And so we’re the Barbel ( mostly).
I am no expert on river health but it seems obvious to me that the river was in a fundamentally different condition.
Thanks,
G.T.
Click to expand...
The demise of the water-crowfoot will be almost entirely attributable to declining water quality, notably increased phosphate and nitrate levels.

Water-crowfoot is so valuable for maintaining summer flows, filtering sediments, providing a refuge for fish from from predators and habitat/food for invertebrates.

It is heartbreaking. Especially when the solutions to pollution are so well understood and entirely preventable in the main.
 
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