European Barbel varieties

[Deleted member 2708]

My only previous barbel catch prior to moving to France was a fish around 4lb from the Swale at Topcliffe millpool.

Many of the barbel we catch here on the Lot, France are small and have big heads in relation to their bodies. The few bigger ones seem different in having heads more in proportion to their bodies.

All seem very fit and healthy, do those two barbel look exactly the same species?

Do UK barbel appear to have "big heads" at certain stages of their growth?

Still a barbel novice here, always some more questions to ask!

 

[Ash Gould]

Very interesting question, there was a thread years ago that meandered down a similar path.

I have often thought we have 2 species of barbel in the UK, like you say there does appear to be 2 distinct types but apparently they just look different and aren’t different sub species.

There is another barbel species called barbus plebejus (Italian barbel) which looks very similar to our barbus barbus. When you look at the 2 side by side it does appear that this could be an explanation for why it appears we have 2 species in the UK but I think it’s a case of adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

Very interesting and as ever much better than doing my work.



ATB

 

[Mark Swaby]

I posted a thread back in April 2017 asking if anyone thought that they had seen any other Barbel in the UK other than Barbus Barbus. Over the years I have seen a few unusual long sloping headed Barbel caught that were so distinct and different to the usual Barbus Barbus. Ray Walton mentioned that a number of Barbel were made available through pet shops a long time ago that had origins in France and they might have been released into our water ways. There are lots of Barbel species in Europe and its quite probable you have at least two types in your river. I seem to remember that some of the European sub species did not grow very large but looked exactly like Barbus Barbus.

 

[Deleted member 2708]

Thanks for those replies guys!

The UK barbel I have seen so many photos of on these forums share the general profile (but usually bigger belly!) of some of my french barbel captures. But the smaller ones here definitely have large heads - so maybe a cousin!

Even the bigger ones (6-8lb) appear to have quite long heads, but at least more in proportion to their body length.

Whatever the biology they all fight out of all proportion to their size - keeps me happy!

I will have a search for that 2017 thread soon. Thanks again!

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

If you have a look here;

Barbus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Further down the page is a list of species.

Typically when your making taxonomic decisions colouration or slight shape variations won’t be the key indicator. Water clarity, diet etc can have huge visual impact. Really you’d be looking at counting scales or fin rays to highlight a sub species etc. It appears pretty typical for Barbus Barbus to have different shape throughout the growth and I expect part of this will be sexual differences. In short, you’d need to start taking some detailed pictures but personally at a quick glance I think those are the same species of fish.
That said, I’m a failed ichthyologist.

 

[Graham Elliott]

There appears to be some definite differences as a general rule between fish on different rivers.

Maybe just due to the different sizes, flows, mean temperatures and growth rates.
Over time this may lead to minor changes through evolution.

There are a number if different sub species of barbel in Spain, maybe six or more, Tony Rocca is the expert and probably caught them all.

I have a picture of one species with very hard spawning nodules on it's head.

I will try and dig it out.

 

[Deleted member 2708]

Some good replies, thanks.

Think I will settle for them being the same as UK barbel but a bit lean and having a Gallic nose. Just like many french people!