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Dissapearing Barbel stocks

Craig Wood

Craig Wood

Senior Member
Hi Everyone,

I think its quite clear that on most Rivers Barbel seem to be dissapearing at alarming rates. Some rivers held healthy stocks for years then all of a sudden BANG, they start dissapearing, why this is happening is not completely clear as i do firmly believe there is not just one cause behind this. Perhaps we just have to accept that on certain rivers the BOOM years are now at an end and may never return, who knows. It would be interesting to hear everyones thoughts regarding their local rivers and how much they have changed over the last few years and perhaps peoples thoughts as to what they have seen change such as habitat, predation, water getting less & less. As said something is going seriously wrong and no one seems to know why.There has to be some kind of explanation. On my local river the Dorset Stour, Barbel have been dissapearing at alarming rates over the last 5 years and that includes smaller Barbel, so i would be very interested in other peoples views where this has been happening on their local rivers..Something is going very seriously wrong and it seems to be getting worse and worse..
 
I'm lucky enough to fish a river that is fairly constant compared to some others. It's not desperately easy fishing for anything in it. Why it doesn't boom and bust like some other rivers isn't remotely clear. However, it does still go through cycles, just not to the extremes. It's had a resident population of otters for as long as I can remember so any downturn in the fishing is difficult to attribute to them when upturns still come about despite their presence. Such cycles are fairly standard, even when a river is generally healthy, and need to be expected, however unpalatable that may be.

Some rivers are on the down cycle, others are at the bottom and at least one, the Trent, is somewhere near the top of the cycle (for barbel at least). I'm convinced that, while some rivers do have problems, the main issue is many anglers having excessive expectations due to many rivers being at the peak of their (barbel) cycles in the last ten years or so. You've simply got to make hay while the sun shines and not expect fish populations to remain especially stable, almost regardless of external influences.
 
Craig Wood said:
Hi Everyone,

I think its quite clear that on most Rivers Barbel seem to be disappearing at alarming rates. Some rivers held healthy stocks for years then all of a sudden BANG, they start disappearing, why this is happening is not completely clear as i do firmly believe there is not just one cause behind this. Perhaps we just have to accept that on certain rivers the BOOM years are now at an end and may never return, who knows. It would be interesting to hear everyone's thoughts regarding their local rivers and how much they have changed over the last few years and perhaps peoples thoughts as to what they have seen change such as habitat, predation, water getting less & less. As said something is going seriously wrong and no one seems to know why.There has to be some kind of explanation. On my local river the Dorset Stour, Barbel have been disappearing at alarming rates over the last 5 years and that includes smaller Barbel, so i would be very interested in other peoples views where this has been happening on their local rivers..Something is going very seriously wrong and it seems to be getting worse and worse..
Click to expand...

Craig,

It would be very interesting to see any evidence that backs up your statements here.... are these reducing numbers based on the annual EA population surveys on those rivers??

Some of my local rivers seem to be on the rise with regards numbers caught in the last 2 years, having dropped dramatically five or so years ago.......... most catches by people fishing either differently, i.e. putting much thought into baits, rigs, presentation, disturbance, etc...., fishing when the fish are feeding, as late as 2am in many cases and fishing different areas than were popular a few years ago.

One thing that is absolutely apparent is that there are fewer re-captures, maybe there were never large numbers, just that they were very gullible when the infamous high oil pellet arrived, they just couldn't resist and got caught very frequently, one stretch I fished on the Loddon in 2003 to 2004 with Elips pellets, I caught pretty much the same fish in the same swims most sessions, they are still there now but are rarely caught in daylight.
 
Hi all,
Ian, I think you have made a good point, it may very well be our fishing behaviour and habits that have caused many peoples catch rates to fall rather than the lack of fish.

Rich
 
Ian Crook said:
Craig,

It would be very interesting to see any evidence that backs up your statements here.... are these reducing numbers based on the annual EA population surveys on those rivers??
Click to expand...

Ian, if you want proof of the crash in barbel numbers on my local rivers, go and ask your local fisheries officer as I'm lead to believe we now share the same management team.
So that covers the rivers Cherwell, Windrush, Thame, Thames, Evenlode and Ray. Also you could ask him for some census reports for Craig's local river Dorset Stour, it makes for grim reading, plus apart from urban and busier stretches, look at the roach figures; what roach!!?
 
Colin,

I agree that your local waters have problems, no doubt about that. I now very little about the Stour.......... Speaking from MY experience on MY local rivers.
 
Ian, I think I misread the tone of your first post, assuming it was put up more as a Doubting Thomas than a genuine interest, if I assumed wrongly, sorry.
I can't speak for Craig (so I won't) but most anglers don't actually have copies of that sort of info.

I know not exactly what you were asking for but a bit of background info none the less: http://barbelsociety.blogspot.com/

As you'll notice on the similar Teme based thread, I am in agreement that perhaps the barbel are now proving a lot more elusive.
 
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The Kennet

Twenty years ago when I regularly fished the Kennet, it was crystal clear and full of ranunculus. You could see and catch, barbel, chub, dace, grayling perch and roach. I even caught a fifteen pound pike.

Now it is turbid, lacking streamer weed and fish. the few barbel are of a good size and many are above that magic ten pound figure. The local crayfisher described it as a sewer. Where there was gravel there is silt. All the big barbel look as if they have been on steroids. How long will those fish last and what will replace them?

Wonderful things high protein baits, pellets, bolt rigs, baitrunners, bite alarms, bivvies etc......

I am the same age as Chris Yates, have a Barder and a Hexagraph. I love using a pin and holding the rod.

Am I missing something?




Hugo


 
I think theres a few problems that are affecting our rivers.

Obviously you got the otters that are thriving, and we all know how much fish they have to eat to survive. you got minks and cormarants. You got poachers that eat all the fish they catch.

Our water levels is very low, even with flooding, the water level will go crashing back down in just a few days, if that, and then theres no flow in the water. It's sometimes like fishing a lake now. Some stretches are like silt at the bottom now instead of gravel like they used to be.

Some of the barbel i've caught from the stour this season the fight has been quite lethargic for a barbel, and I think that could be down to the lack of flow.

Some rivers are also having huge problems with crays, and luckily the two rivers I fish, the Dorset Stour and Hampshire Avon doesn't have these problems.

Also all that high protein bait we put in can't help can it? I mean imagine the human population being on steroids, would you actually be shocked in 15 years time when records show that it did actually affect our life expectancy?

So in conclusion theres a lot of problems that are affecting our rivers,, it's not just otters, theres a lot of others, and that's why i believe our rivers are having such an affect. it's all came in one bloody go basically.
 
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Hi Ahmed,

For heavens sake don't add the poor old water voles to your list of predators, they are almost totally vegetarian, and are in enough trouble as it is :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Any body who has fished the W/Avon and the Severn over the years knows what the effect the floods of 2007 had .

If my memory serves me right when the levels went back down .
There were fish trapped and had to be rescued from Worcester county cricket ground or was it the race course ?
So how many other fish were lost when the levels dropped ?

I have fished the W/avon and one particular area for more years than I care to remember and I know that after the floods the river was never the same .

Its only now that its seems to be returning to what it was before the floods .
The stretch I fish and I have fished it for many years I have never seen a Otter .

This season my catch rate has improved no end .
The only down side is, At the start of the season I was getting up to 3 fish a session and now I am only getting 1 or I blank .
So I can only assume they are now a lot more wary than what they were at the start of the season .
 
Hi Craig,
i found it very interesting on your views on the disapearing Barbel in the Dorset Stour, i also found it interesting that Ian Crook asked what is your evidence based on, but to reply to you as the bailiff on Throop Fishery, perhaps we can bring in bit of evidence for you to look at.
We know that fish can disapear through predators, they do also travel great distances,and we have evidence of fish leaving the river at Throop and turning up on the the Avon at the Royalty, and they can also die off due to natural causes.
In the season 2009-2010 there were 103 Barbel catches reported to me.
In the season 2010-2011 there were 151 Barbel catches reported to me.
Now i know that this amount of Barbel does not seem very much and quite a few are recaptures, but considering that this amount of reported fish captures,come mainly from a stretch that is only 3 miles long, and bear in mind that there are many many anglers that do not report their captures, so it is not the doom and gloom that you are stating.
On Beat 1 on Throop the water is very deep and fish spotting is almost impossible, it is very rarely fished even though some Barbel have been caught in excess of 14lbs.
On Beat 2 at the moment the water is very low and there is an excessive amount of weed that can make Barbel spotting very difficult, but saying that, the fish are still there, quite a few doubles have been reported to over 13lb.
Now i move on to the question of very small Barbel, we all know that these small species are not caught very often, but saying that i have a picture on my Throop report of a cracking diddy Barbel, but let me tell you that the small Barbel are there in numbers if you know where to look.
Every week i beg and plead with anglers to let me know what they have caught, and that is where the problem begins, with very few anglers fishing at the moment, and many reluctant to reveal there catches, everyone assumes that there are no fish left, the catch reports that are sent to me are monitered by the EA, the sizes are noted and the results are sent to me.
The Roach and Perch are in the river in great numbers with many good specimens being caught, along with quite a few river Carp, and not forgetting our specimen Chub.
The longer you spend on the river the more you see, if you stand on School Bridge in the dark and shine a high powered torch into the water you would be shocked at the amount of fry that can be seen, there are millions, yes millions, and that is no exageration.
So be honest Craig, how many times have you fished Throop this season ?
Brian Willson.
 
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That comes with some relief Brian, I too have shone my head torch in the WA at night recently and the amount of small fish /fry is truly staggering.
 
Ian Hugo Arnott said:
Twenty years ago when I regularly fished the Kennet, it was crystal clear and full of ranunculus. You could see and catch, barbel, chub, dace, grayling perch and roach. I even caught a fifteen pound pike.

Now it is turbid, lacking streamer weed and fish. the few barbel are of a good size and many are above that magic ten pound figure. The local crayfisher described it as a sewer. Where there was gravel there is silt. All the big barbel look as if they have been on steroids. How long will those fish last and what will replace them?

Wonderful things high protein baits, pellets, bolt rigs, baitrunners, bite alarms, bivvies etc......

I am the same age as Chris Yates, have a Barder and a Hexagraph. I love using a pin and holding the rod.

Am I missing something?




Hugo
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Hi Ian,
I grow up on the Kennet and it is the clearest and in the best quality that it has been for years with plenty of trout, grayling, dace etc being caught.
As well as barbel as low as a few ounces.
I would expect the crayfish trapper is more referring to the morrons who keep destroying his traps rather than the river it's self.
I also don't see how using vintage tackle will improve the fish stocks, but each to there own I guess.
I remember reading 10 years ago that the Kennet would be dead by now, strange how it isn't.
Rich
 
Rich Parsons said:
Hi Ian,

I also don't see how using vintage tackle will improve the fish stocks, but each to there own I guess.

Rich
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I was curious about this one as well...and does using a aged centre pin with a nice new (ish) carbon fibre rod harm stocks or improve them?:confused: Please advise.....as I'd have to sell my car to but one of those Barder rods (as well as spend some time down at the gym to be able to hold it all day)

As far as bolt rigs go, Severn anglers were using a great big weight to self hook barbel back when I was still listening to T Rex and wearing tonic suits along with that high protein, chemical packed bait, luncheon meat (and extra hooks on the feeder). Most of the stuff in seventies luncheon meat isn't allowed in cat food these days let alone for human consumption. Some people seem to always look at the past through (very) rose tinted glasses.
 
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Hi Brian,

Hope all is well mate..I will give you a call this evening..I have taken on board EVERYTHING that has been said on this thread and their are some really good points by yourself and Ian, thanks chaps..:)
 
Hi all,
Ian (Hugo) I would like to say that my post was not intended as a dig in any way.
Rich
 
Gentlemen,

Thank you for joining in this discussion; it is a subject close to my heart.


Rich,

I did not take offence but wonder which stretch of the Kennet you fish as it seems totally different to my stretch. Club rules prevent me from disclosing the venue, but it is between Thatcham and Newbury. The river has been negelcted and there are large areas of shallow featureless silt. No streamer weed at all. Pods of barbel between three and seven pounds and a few bigger fish, which get caught over and over. Industrialised and urbanised I fish there two or three times a season. I used to fish it twice a week. I may not even go back.

Vintage Tackle

The Barder I have had since 2001 and I used part of my civil service lump sum as a retirement present. Yes I have admitted that I was a civil servant. The Hexagraph was bought with an insurance settlement after I had wrecked a MKIV Avon. Both rods are a joy to use. I don't own many rods. The Speedia I have had since 1964 and my only other centrepin is a Rapidex 4; both owned from new. The Barder is not heavy if it is matched with a Mitchell 300 or Speedia and placed in a rest with the butt handle resting on your knee.


Bolt rigs....well teher used to be an old boy who fished the Thames at Penton Hook, who used a sea rod with massive leads. He fished in the main current with massive lumps of fried sausage. He caught far more barbel in the day than we Walker clones with our MKIVs, big landing nets and attitude. But what did I know then? I know even less now!


Regards




Hugo


 
Right looked in on this subject and got me thinking and going back through catches last year this year i have caught more barbel between the weight of 3lb to 9lb than i did last year this all came from the kennet i am just wondering do barbel go through breeding cycles like cod do as every 4 years with cod fishing you get a boom of baby cod.
 
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