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Different particles

Jon Whelan

Senior Member
Morning all,

Just making a cheaper particle ground bait mix for a canal prebaiting campaign and wondered if anyone has any thoughts as to the following for use/suitability for a barbel dropper mix.

Other than the usual, bits include crushed maize, wheat & layers mash. Thinking of barley & groats too. I am using these to bulk out my mix with cheaper ingredients rather than mostly using the likes of hemp & pigeon conditioner; the layers mash acts as a partial binder in addition/alternative to vitalin.

Any thoughts on cheap bulk additives like salt, sugar, molasses would be appreciated too.

NB all particles will have a decent soak before boiling to reduce cooking time.

Many thanks, Jon
 
I`ll just say......maple peas, worst kept secret.

Ignore them at your peril.
 
I`ll just say......maple peas, worst kept secret.

Ignore them at your peril.

Agree with Mic here.
Devasting, carp and tench love them, never tried them for anything else, but I bet they would work !
 
Hi Jon,

Looking at your list, and intentions for preparation, I thought I would offer a link to preparation time for various particles because soak and cooking times vary widely. For instance, groats need NO soak time, and only 1<2 minutes cooking time. In fact, pouring boiling water over it and letting it stand is enough in my opinion. Perhaps best then to prepare the items separately?

How to prepare cook particle baits for fishing

The article in the link also lists a number of other possible alternatives for ingredients to add to your list. It struck me that there is a fair bit of duplication in your list, because the pre-prepared items such as Vitalin and layers mash already contain many of the ingredients you also list separately. Vitalin has wheat, corn, barley and soya content, as does layers mash, which also has sorghum and other grains. It doesn't really matter, I just thought I would mention it.

Another thought, though you are no doubt already aware of this, is that some of the items, such as the pulses on the link, and those suggested by others, are indeed excellent for use as a pre baiting item (especially if you intend to possibly use them as an alternative bait later) but are a bit too filling to use in quantity as an attractor in a dropper mix whilst actually fishing.

Your campaign sounds a lot of fun Jon, and rather challenging as you seem to be targeting canal barbel. Would love to know how you get on mate.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Jon, barley is good and takes flavours and dyes fairly easily as does wheat,
both i add are a very filling bait, both bottle well and keep well with salt and sugar added:)
 
Many thanks for the replies.

Due to the demands of work I am setting out my stall for my summer (carp) fishing by prebaiting two fairly proximate areas on two separate canals four to five times a week. These will be fished on rotation via quick evening or morning sessions. I have booked my annual leave whereby I will be barbelling saving most for the more productive times later in the season.

Maple peas, a classic! I have not used those since the mid 80s & then when finding my own fishing feet in my early teens loading a swim with a reasonable bed, it was akin to carpet bombing - an unmistakeable sound. Thanks for that. As a medium to large sized particle they will make a good addition.

Chick peas I will have a look at & the price - another timeless classic.

Mixed finch seed - how much is that for 20kg? I am presently paying approx £15 for 20kg.

Thanks John for the thoughts on barley & wheat

Dave, thanks for your detailed reply. I should have expanded myself further - I'll be fishing with the above mainly for canal carp and it was the suitability of some of these ingredients for barbelling within my dropper/feeder mix. I definitely agree that there is some overlap between the particles and the binders - the cheap binders were more to plug my feeders rather than to add to the dropper mix. Also agreed on the preparation times - I especially like the idea of utilising particles like groats that one can place in boiling water and soak.

Catching barbel from the canal - now that a feat round my parts. I have read a lot of bits on the net and seemingly there is the occasional fluke capture; maybe not so much of a fluke to those in the know. One of the canals I'm fishing has no locks for many 10s of miles just with a gentle tow. There are the inlets & they are meant to be a good holding spot which is a fairly obvious one given the mostly still nature.

I have a lot of (literal) leg work as well as more stealthy baiting to go and it might be only based on a small snippet of info on a very big fish. This is a long term campaign which I hope to be reaping either side of the winter freeze. Just keep it going in...

I am now off for the dusk feed...

Many thanks again, Jon
 
Morning all,

Just making a cheaper particle ground bait mix for a canal prebaiting campaign and wondered if anyone has any thoughts as to the following for use/suitability for a barbel dropper mix.

Hi Jon, I guessed it probably would be carp you were targeting, but you first sentence (above) did have me wondering :D Joking apart, barbel fishing in canals is actually a viable option on several pounds of the G.U canal in my area, because there are running sections bought about by small rivers (notably the Colne) joining the canal and exiting further down, or sometimes merely crossing the canal.

If you don't mind me asking fella, what hook bait will you be using when you start actually fishing your chosen areas...and are you including any in your pre-baiting mix?

Lastly, are crays a major factor in the canal you are going to fish? In the G.U in my area they are a nightmare!

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Hi Dave,

Just back from my round trip. Apologies for my lack of clarity in my opening post & luckily you'd read between my blurred lines so to speak ;)

More than fair point on the location points of barbel within canals joining rivers and back again - this did not occur to me. Probably the nearest section I am aware of (or pound are they called - hopefully get better with the canal lingo in due course!) in a similar nature are those on the River Soar in north Leicestershire.

Still undecided as to my approach as things are that busy and provisionally I have spent quite a bit of time walking the bank at different times of the day, lamping, plumbing for depths & bottom type, reading and getting bait into a four favoured areas at dusk without being seen which is more difficult than I first envisaged - dread the time when I start fishing to make it even more obvious - all my oldest (appropriate) tackle is going to be used so to not stand out from the crowd...easily said!

Hookbaits presently undecided. When I start fishing in the next couple of weeks I will either:-

1) Slowly introduce very small amounts of tiger nuts into my particle mix, decreasing the volume of mix as fishing time approaches
2) Slowly introduce boilies into the mix (18 & 22mm) again slowing down mix volume
3) Slowly introduce boilies into the mix and to stop feeding particle altogether feeding 20 or so boilies per prebait visit prior to fishing time approach & to use these when finally fishing

One canal stretch bed is relatively clean & gravelly whereby I think bottom baits should be suitable; the other was initially the opposite but upon subsequent plumbing the area has been mostly 'cleaned off' since and will initially start with snowman styled rigs. Both stretches are heavily used by boats but the former is no where near as turbid as the latter.

Regarding crayfish - I understand that these are not present in these stretches. I hope that this is the case & will have adapt if this is not so.

Any pointers like those given already would be much appreciated as this is a completely new arena for me. Hopefully things will come good from the effort I have put in so far & more still to come - but fishing has to be a challenge and it's the unpredictability that draws us.

Many thanks, Jon

PS apologies to those not keen on some of these aspects being placed in this board rather than the 'other species' board. I think there there are some overlaps be it prebaiting approaches/styles and I am still very keen to hear from those that in the past have used the likes of barley, groats, peas, crushed or whole maize, CSL pellets or even nuts, etc to some effect (or not) for barbel in the past
 
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chickpeas flavoured easily too,csl pellets from animal feed stores known ase ewe nuts 25kg for a tenner

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the post. Re the ewe nuts - have you ever fished for barbel with these in your mix? Reason I ask, I used these in a varied ground bait a lot on the continent approx 7 years ago & the mix used in conjunction with boilies as hook baits worked very well for carp.

However, using the same mix on a few UK rivers for barbel my results were a bit sporadic. Then I dropped the ewe nuts & my captures improved - the only problem though is that this change coincided with a couple of other changes too & so I was never clear as to what was what so consequently have not tried them since for barbel.

Thanks, Jon
 
Hi Jon,

Firstly, my canal carp fishing was fairly limited, but I am happy to give you pointers from whatever I learned during that time. Most of it is common sense and standard fishing practice anyway, but still, it may help....if only by provoking contradictory responses from those more experienced in canal carping, but who have not yet bothered to post :D

I know it's a bit late for location talk, as you have already started your baiting, but anyway.....the bankers are :- Overhanging trees/bushes/brambles etc. on the far bank (It is obviously invariably better in areas where the far bank is inaccessible to anglers or the general public) Long term moored boats/marinas. Incoming rivers/streams. Any cutting into the far bank, such as drainage ditches, remains of abandoned and/or filled in canal arms, especially if the inlet has tree/bush cover.

If the canal you are fishing has not seen much in the way of carp angling, then the carp may not recognise boilies instantly as food. In that case, were you just doing one off trips, then attractor baits (I had good results with Richworth frozen tutties for instance) work well...but do not attempt to use these as feed on long term campaigns . I suppose it goes without saying that the old faithful luncheon meat is also fairly instant on such canals. In your case, where you are intending to pre-bait fairly long term, then the gradual introduction of a decent nutritional value/low flavour level type boilie should work well. Mind you, if it turns out that the cray menace has infected your canal, then obviously the tigers you mention are the way to go....it takes the little bar stewards ages to whittle them down. By the way, If they are not present, then the addition of a tin of cheap tuna (in brine) to your mix will do you no harm. The addition to your mix of prepared groats and the liquid they were prepared in (if you intend to bait on the day) will give you a lovely cloud effect that hangs in the water column fairly well, especially if used on the sloppy side.

You mention that your canal has fairly constant boat traffic, which does make things more tricky. Due to the normal bed profile on canals (shallow-ish margins, deep central boat channel) back leading doesn't work too well for far bank fishing, so that is pretty well out during the day. That leaves you with mid canal or near margin fishing, which CAN work well, but is usually not so prolific. Restricting yourself to night fishing the far bank is the other option, and the one I would favour. Trial and error often picks out consistent swims, or even hot spots in a swim....which are sometimes not that logical :D

Lastly, position your gear so that the more unpleasant, militant type cyclists/mountain bike thugs do not trash your rods etc.....it happens, and sometimes it is no accident :mad:

Good luck fella, have a shed load :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Hi Dave,

Firstly many thanks for the time taken & detailed response made.

All very valid points and reiterates some of my provisional considerations and those bits read. Re location, absolutely agree on the holding areas and especially that there will be trial and error with non logical hot spots. Whilst carping on a few rivers, once these areas have been found it normally follows that mostly if there not in one spot they will be in one of the others. Time on the bank will hopefully help with that.

Most of my sessions will be quick evenings/mornings/nighters starting one hour before dusk & pulling off after the first boat has passed through. When I have a couple of days leave, the first will be a nighter on the canal followed by a quick 24 hours on the Trent. The latter being a treat for the expected slow canal fishing. Hopefully this approach will keep me out of the way & give the flexible spot fishing you described.

Thanks for the pointers on the crays & emphasising the use of attractor baits. The tutties caught me my first double on a place called Sheepy Magna in the mid 80s...tasty too (the bait that is)! And fair comment on the cyclist front; positioning myself for night cyclist might be tricky on the tight tow paths especially if they have got there foot down & myself blending in with an olive brolly, etc.

Again thanks for all your thoughts & I'll keep you posted.

Cheers, Jon
 
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