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Closed Season Controversy

Joe Fletcher said:
We as anglers complain about the decline in fish numbers in our rivers . Due predation , water quality etc etc .and here we are debating should we do away with the close season . Surely we as anglers have a duty of care to look after our dwindling fish stocks in what ever shape or form that might take .
If that means tinkering with the present close season . For example start the close season at the end of March until the end of June or middle of July then so be it . I would of thought the last thing a fish would want just as there getting down to it , For some idiot with 4 ozs of lead to be lobbed on top of them .
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I agree. Keep the closed season but move it to finish end of March/start 1st July. Having a closed season gives us, the fish and the banks a rest. It gives us a start and a finish to each 'season'. We should keep the environmental, conservation and 'caring custodians of the environment' high ground... As the threats against us increase. As I see it many of the arguments for abolishing it are for selfish, vested interest reasons. e.g. "I want to fish more" or excuse the 'red herring' "what about the poaches" and "I'm paying for 12 months" etc. For me personally coarse fishing will never be the same magical sport without it.

JMHO

Greg Buxton
 
As a barbel angler, one of my concerns is the fact that after spawning many fish are in a weakened condition.
Accepting that spawning dates vary each year and on many rivers. As a rule it could be from May till end June.

Now. The most distressed /dying/ floating downstream fish I see are those caught June. Often combined with warm water. In fact some areas, like the middle Severn were notorious for fatalities of keepnet held fish.
(Sorry chaps, thats true)

If we allow a longer period of catching spawned out fish.....more will be killed.

Ideally, for barbel anglers the start should be around end of June IMO.
But that ignores early spawners.

So?? I have no idea, but more barbel will die if we allow a no break season.

.
 
Graham Elliott said:
As a barbel angler, one of my concerns is the fact that after spawning many fish are in a weakened condition.
Accepting that spawning dates vary each year and on many rivers. As a rule it could be from May till end June.

Now. The most distressed /dying/ floating downstream fish I see are those caught June. Often combined with warm water. In fact some areas, like the middle Severn were notorious for fatalities of keepnet held fish.
(Sorry chaps, thats true)

If we allow a longer period of catching spawned out fish.....more will be killed.

Ideally, for barbel anglers the start should be around end of June IMO.
But that ignores early spawners.

So?? I have no idea, but more barbel will die if we allow a no break season.

.
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Yes the sight of belly up Barbel sweeping down the Lower Severn because of what happened up stream still haunts me. This is not a closed season problem, more the fact that the controlling clubs don't give a monkey's about welfare of fish, let alone protecting their biggest and only asset. I see nothing on the BAA website about welfare, handling or the issues that get discussed on here, and when you try to raise the subject you get abuse.

One example of such was that I posted on Wye Angling facebook page that the woman that lost more than half of the Barbel she hooked to a snag would have been better off moving!!! I was kicked off the site, not that worries me one jot, but what does concern me is the appalling attitude. I would think to a man on woman on here would be mortified if we killed a Barbel due to poor Angling.

I am of the opinion that the decline in Barbel stocks is is not only the work of the Otter but poor handling, the Warks Avon gets hammered every summer from the caravan brigade, plenty Barbel die, I am afraid, these are adult fish that reproduce.

The likes of the Barbel Society do try and hammer home the message, but it falls on deaf ears, so it has to fall on the Clubs and owners to educate, and to protect the spawning areas, as well as the most vulnerable of all the species the Barbel.

We all need a licence to fish, but what sort of licence is issued to anyone who doesn't have a clue about the skills or the need to protect the fish?
 
Neil.
I had a barbel, that I know about, die on me. Despite nursing for over an hour..
I have also had one or two that I thought ok, needing to be re netted and nursed for longer.

And I consider my handling of them to be good. Those are ones I know about.

I suspect most on here have in all honesty had similar experiences.

So how many are lost by inexperienced or careless anglers?
This will be increased if very recently spawned fish are caught. This will be more often if May to Mid June is included in fishing periods.

Regards your comment on fish snagging and lady anglers.

I once met an angler known to many on here that had lost 5 barbel on the trot. Fishing braid mainline over what I knew was a rocky ledge into deeper water. When he had lost 2 more whilst I was there I strongly suggested a change of approach for the benefit of the fish.

He didn't quite say FO.

So for many, the desire to catch often precedes care for what we seek.

Fish on river spawning areas will not be safe. And they will not have the protection that many commercial waters have. That is closure when needs.
 
I suggest we make sure we bring this up with the controlling clubs and they can have "no fishing" zones, I`ll certainly suggest to my club`s this alternative, then those that are fishing can police (to some degree) those who may break the rule.
 
On page 3 of this debate is a picture of Dave Harrell . He clearly states he would like to see an end to the close season ?
We all know he is a well known match angler and uses a keep net to retain the fish he has caught ? I wonder if Mr Harrell when fishing a match and is under pressure to catch as many fish as possible to win a match and take home the money he could win or not win ? . Would he take the time and the effort to make sure any Barbel he might catch be given time to recover when placing them in his keepnet ?
 
Shaun Nurse said:
I suggest we make sure we bring this up with the controlling clubs and they can have "no fishing" zones, I`ll certainly suggest to my club`s this alternative, then those that are fishing can police (to some degree) those who may break the rule.
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Shaun you only have to look at the problems the BAA have had in the past with some of the idiots that fish there waters . If they cant police there own waters now ? What chance have they got policing there waters in the future
 
Shaun Nurse said:
I suggest we make sure we bring this up with the controlling clubs and they can have "no fishing" zones, I`ll certainly suggest to my club`s this alternative, then those that are fishing can police (to some degree) those who may break the rule.
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Yes Shaun, I really do think this has to be something we have to do. I remember seeing so many spawning Barbel on the Teme some years back, in late June, the area was difficult to fish from the bank, but if you had to you could wade it. Perhaps the Barbel knew it received little Angling pressure? I think they did, which goes some way into thinking we need to have areas that are cordoned off , full time so they will be confident to revisit every spring.
 
Joe Fletcher said:
Shaun you only have to look at the problems the BAA have had in the past with some of the idiots that fish there waters . If they cant police there own waters now ? What chance have they got policing there waters in the future
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They are not interested too much in conservation, they are from a Match heritage, but change can be brought about, they control some extremely sensitive stretches, ie the Middle Severn and of course the Teme to name just two, the stock answer is that any such discussion can be brought up at the AGM's
Yea good luck with that.
 
Graham Elliott said:
Neil.
I had a barbel, that I know about, die on me. Despite nursing for over an hour..
I have also had one or two that I thought ok, needing to be re netted and nursed for longer.

And I consider my handling of them to be good. Those are ones I know about.

I suspect most on here have in all honesty had similar experiences.

So how many are lost by inexperienced or careless anglers?
This will be increased if very recently spawned fish are caught. This will be more often if May to Mid June is included in fishing periods.

Regards your comment on fish snagging and lady anglers.

I once met an angler known to many on here that had lost 5 barbel on the trot. Fishing braid mainline over what I knew was a rocky ledge into deeper water. When he had lost 2 more whilst I was there I strongly suggested a change of approach for the benefit of the fish.

He didn't quite say FO.

So for many, the desire to catch often precedes care for what we seek.

Fish on river spawning areas will not be safe. And they will not have the protection that many commercial waters have. That is closure when needs.
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Graham the number of Barbel you catch it had to happen, me on the other hand :) But yes I have nursed Barbel for ages and I like to think that because they have swam off they have survived...but? I don't mess around with taking pics, just in the net if I have to, and a quick weigh, in the net. This selfie thing has killed for some fabulous Barbel I am sure.. Even a spawned Barbel should survive if kept in the net.
 
Shaun.
Yes. IF things change that would be ideal but it would need constant surveillance because it can happen IME for a period of just a couple of days as far as barbel are concerned.
Also often they will group, then conditions change and they will move away for a period until conditions revert.

I am fortunate in that watched the fish in the Kennet and Loddon spawn over many years Even helped a film producer record it.

Can you see it.

Oy mate, barbel just started spawning.
You need to go home to "insert 100 miles away" now.

Any outcomes from the many years the BS spawning survey ran?
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Did you actually read my post Graham ? :). Where did I write ‘that anglers cause more damage to wildlife than paddlers and dogs’ ?! But for the record, they must cause more disturbance on ‘some’ rivers e.g ones which don’t attract paddlers or are close to PROW, I don’t recall ever having seeing any paddlers on my local rivers (Dane, Weaver & Govt) and the stretches I fish tend to be well away from areas visited by dog walkers.

I’m well aware of the distrubance some irresponsible paddlers and dog walkers can cause, as I said in my post, ‘we all acknowledge how reckless and inconsiderate some river users are’. The point I’m making is I don’t see how that translates into a cogent argument for completely scrapping the close season.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a PRN?
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PRN is a public right of navigation.

I did read your post Joe and didn't quote you verbatim my apologies, my experiences with dogs and paddlers are it seems different so our opinions are going to be different, the biggest reason for abolishing the CS for me is that there is no evidence that any harm will be caused but there is evidence that it has done no harm on still waters, that and what it is used for now isn't what it was first meant to do. I suppose my opinion might change if the study that has been carried out shows that significant damage will be done by opening the rivers up for 12 months, remember that no studies were done before that was done so at least rivers that are probably in a poorer state than still waters are getting that consideration.
 
Hi men ,

Move the start to July ?, what on earth is that about . I know a large club whos chaiman told me that if it was not for the carp anglers paying for their lakes they control they would have given up their good stretches of the once Gt Ouse , and this replicated with another club I know . Drive down Radwell / Sharnbrook on the vauxhall club stretches and where once you had to que for a hundred yds to park now its oftern deserted , some clu s are living on the edge for sure . I also know of a couple of bits the farmer cant give away . For hevens sake you cant get kids on the moving waters let alone explaining to them that through some nice weather in April , May , June through to July you cant fish ?, effectively give the average angler 4 months fishing out of 12 ? , financial suicide for many clubs .
The call for the close seaon to be abandoned may well be partly selfish , because thats human nature , but with the evidence of lakes and canals showing no signs of problems , add to that the bird lovers are happy it dont effect their feathered friends then the reasons to keep it deminish .
I took a straw pole at work as we sat having a coffee of normal cross section of blokes . 7 sitting around , " they are thinking of getting rid of the close season" , other than one who was an angler , all thought there was no close season anyway , and could not care less . Shockingly one of them said he had herd otters were becoming a problem from his carp fishing son . Others i asked during the day not one cared less , not scientific I know .


Hatter
 
Personally I am against the closed season and wish to see this antiquated unfit for purpose law that is still in place removed. The rivers are just fining down after the snow and will fish well, unfortunately this may not happen until the enforced break once again. This has to be looked at with all coarse fish in mind.

In order to protect spawning fish from the attention of anglers we would have to start at the end of January. This is the time when pike start to spawn, and pike anglers look for the schooling males awaiting the females, also come February we have perch, grayling and dace spawning. On the Wye the dace spawning is signaled by them becoming rough then disappearing as if there was none there. Come June bream, barbel, carp, tench and often chub are still spawning often into July, so what is getting protected? Especially when you consider the fish will not feed when spawning; the answer is nothing! We used to witness this every year on the Exe and Exeter canal when there was no coarse fish closed season for South West Water, the fish would shut up shop then in July these venues would fish fantastically well, certainly there is no adverse effect. The closed season was removed quite few years ago on canals which according to people I know who regularly fish them are better than ever and often the only busy fisheries now are still waters.

Then comes the 'rest', I, along with normally whoever I have been fishing with, have been the only people I see most winter days. Well and truly 'rested'. Even when anglers are allowed back - remember many rivers open for game fishing in April, there are still few around. Surely the hordes of bank walkers, dogs, boats, cyclists etc cause more disturbance. Certainly from what I see this is the case. Vegetation is allowed to grow back, it will grow back anyway that is what happens in spring, maybe we wont need a work party to cut it all down come May? On my local Avon the EA have sanctioned horrendous habitat destruction by the navigation trust. An act that is supposedly illegal as it supports otters and water voles. This has left the fish species short of sanctuary as they try and avoid the hordes of cormorants and more recently goosanders invading the waterway. If fish need protection it is from this NOT me fishing!
 
Fish don't feed when spawning.?

Maybe not much when pre - occupied for a couple of days.

But barbel do hang around the spawning grounds and shallows cleaning themselves and recovering.

Of course this can happen at mid June sometimes. But they should be easy every year with the change.
 
Canals probably are better now. Then again countrywide they get very little attention. The fish have thrived due to this.

Still waters. No problem.

Dump a few more fish in to cover any losses.
 
Jason Bean said:
I gre up in Leicester that was bad enough... I suppose someone has to live in brum... live in oxford now, but enjoy trips to the wye
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Graham Young said:
Joe have you seen the damage that paddlers can do to spawning redds? I have seen them stopping mid river and walking about on the gravel that the Barbel spawn on, this where there is no PRN, who is there to stop them? Its not just paddlers that I have seen on gravels but fly anglers wading on them during the coarse closed season.

Imo dogs being walked off lead by a river will disturb wildlife a whole lot more than an angler sitting quietly on the bank, I have seen them running through undergrowth chasing anything that moves not to mention the sheep worrying I have seen, this was on a smaller river, the Derbyshire Derwent where there is no public right of way. If you truly believe that anglers can cause more damage to wildlife than paddlers and dogs why is it that where there is none of this happening due to no access for either wildlife abounds?
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Graham,I have myself witnessed the barbel spawning on a stretch of the Derbyshire derwent,a magnificent site to behold. Maybe a week or so later I returned to find some local teenagers paddling and generally messing about on the very same spawning gravels. Those kids probably do that all the time during the summer,just kids mucking about,we've all been there. Of all my own captures,and other people s I've witnessed,only one fish was below double figures,recruitment must be near zero on that particular stretch,probably because of said paddling.
 
Joe Fletcher said:
On page 3 of this debate is a picture of Dave Harrell . He clearly states he would like to see an end to the close season ?
We all know he is a well known match angler and uses a keep net to retain the fish he has caught ? I wonder if Mr Harrell when fishing a match and is under pressure to catch as many fish as possible to win a match and take home the money he could win or not win ? . Would he take the time and the effort to make sure any Barbel he might catch be given time to recover when placing them in his keepnet ?
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I would say that Dave Harrell knows how best to look after barbel more so than the majority of barbel anglers do, he uses balanced tackle, plays them in efficiently, doesn't use gaffs for hooks, unhook's them quickly and puts them in a suitable keepnet where they will fully recover in a safe environment. The only problems that may arise is at the weigh in where if they are tipped in to the weigh sling it could cause fin and scale damage....but the survival and robust nature of barbel in stillwater commercials shows that they are more durable than we give them credit for.

Some of the worst barbel handling I have seen is by " barbel anglers" trying to unhook, weigh and then photograph fish in the middle of summer then wonder why it won't recover.
 
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