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Britain's biggest barbel...

Graham...as in many of your posts nowadays your out of touch.....captives are not out there any more!

Graham stop singing the age old tune......grow up and listen to the facts.
 
Jason you of course are always correct. It's probably that funny baccy still.

Yes captives are not out there. Because they arn't. Silly Boy Jason.


What facts would you like to offer up then. ?
 
The facts (as stated by the powers that be) were that 117 farmed otters were released between 1983 and 1999.

The problems with these figures, as I see it, are.....

(1) They were issued by politicians or minions of politicians, all of whom we know from bitter experience lie through their teeth at every opportunity.

(2) Even if not direct lies told by the politicians, these figures are only the releases as admitted to by the tree huggers involved...and those guys tell bigger lies than politicians in order to further their pet projects. Look how violent hunt saboteurs get, the violence of PETA supporters. Give some folk a cause to support and they become thugs. Telling lies is just an everyday occurrence for these people.

(3)They do not include the re-releases of injured animals or new cubs rejected by resident addults which are taken in by the tree huggers and released after a period of treatment in captivity....and I guarantee that still happens now, to some extent.

We will probably never know the true number of otters released, nor even how many individuals/groups there were farming otters who did not officialy exist, or for whom a blind eye was turned. Neither will we ever know when the last otters were ACTUALLY released, or indeed whether it still goes on in a small way to this day. As the old saying quite rightly states...there are lies, damned lies...and statistics. Believe what you will, it will make little difference to the inevitable outcome anyway.
 
I do recall reading a report sometime ago that was some sort of assessment of the impact Otters were having/could have on fisheries. A kind of for and against type thing. I might try and dig it out- it's probably easy to locate via a Google search. Also can't remember who commissioned and produced it (which can naturally make a difference in terms of how arguments are nuanced). One thing I do recall, which sort of made a bit of sense, was that otters here generally live shorter lives (something like 8 compared to 15 years sewhere in Europe) and in part (quite a big part I think) this is due to the availability of food. They tend to operate within fairly large territories (as much as 20-25km?) and dwindling food sources are forcing otters to travel more and in doing so they come under threat. Territorial scraps with other otters, attacked by man's best friend and of course a bit of road kill. Although saying that, I have never seen a dead otter on the side of the road in all my travelling years, but the principle makes sense. I think the report also said that cubs are nor produced each year with environmental issues for otters determining whether or not successful breeding takes place. The overall message there simply being that a natural thinning out process is taking place. Which when we think about rivers ravaged by otters resulting in profound reductions in stock levels, has to make sense. Otters would need to move on ultimately. Either that or they make material shifts in the diet and start salivating at the sight of a swan or other wildlife which, you would imagine, get the RSPB hot and bothered. Now, where would that lead?

Clearly if this thinning out process is taking place and that dreaded word "balance" comes into play, then all fine and dandy- apart from the devastation that has taken place in the meantime. And you also get back to, arguably, the more serious issue of recruitment in certain rivers.
 
The RSPB wouldn't do anything, they wouldn't dare. They spent tens of thousands at Minsmere fencing the scrape to protect avocets from marauding badgers rather than moving the critters or alternatively pretending they had bovine TB.
As Howard states recruitment is the problem, but this won't get sorted unless they address pesticide run off from agriculture.
 
Graham Elliott said:
Jason you of course are always correct. It's probably that funny baccy still.

Yes captives are not out there. Because they arn't. Silly Boy Jason.


What facts would you like to offer up then. ?
Click to expand...

I reckon you need a puff on it to get back to planet earth graham::D for quite a few years I tried work with the ea, it soon become apparent it just was not going to work, hence I hope the angling trust can get them on the right tack so that's where I put my money.

Regarding otters, banging this conspiracy theory drum just as no basis for facts behind it. If you read what's going on at Cardiff university it's quite apparent the numbers of otters they have examined means there was no way it was introductions that gave otters the numbers or range they have now

http://www.otterproject.cf.ac.uk
 
Interesting link Jason,.. thanks for putting that up.
I wonder if we should factor in the numerous artificial holts that were strategicly placed on our rivers to make a roving otter feel at home, and encourage it to stick around.
Certainly quite a few were put in place on the mole and wey a few years back.
 
Dear Jason.

Regarding Otters. Can you point where this happened regards my comments please?

banging this conspiracy theory drum

I understand too much Wacky baccy can turn one into a vegetable.
 
Graham Elliott said:
Why would the released ones die off Crooky, with a life span of around 15 years, when as you say, they have no natural or human enemies, apart from possibly the very few surviving wild otter strain?
Click to expand...

Graham, this is one for your latest posts that as no basis for fact, truth is based on fact that many re introduced otters were squashed on roads...the same that is happening to true wild otters.

Have a puff and read the facts, hearsay, gossip and self pretence doesn't help in life.......:D

Cheers
Jason
 
If thats a conspiracy theory Mr Bean. It has already happened. I think even your mate Colin would laugh at that one.
 
Dave Taylor said:
Interesting link Jason,.. thanks for putting that up.
I wonder if we should factor in the numerous artificial holts that were strategicly placed on our rivers to make a roving otter feel at home, and encourage it to stick around.
Certainly quite a few were put in place on the mole and wey a few years back.
Click to expand...

The reality is artificial holts very rarely get used, there in the open for people to luck at, make good cover for fish and basically otters like making there own homes.

This is a feel good thing for the weekend wildlife trust workers, to say you made a holt gives high credence in the ranks of these sort.

Truth is the majority are just rat holes with big fish living under them
 
I would just like to add the catches jerry and his mates are putting up on there charity raiser would support facts there is not a problem with barbel populations

Some cracking fish being caught
 
Jason Bean said:
I would just like to add the catches jerry and his mates are putting up on there charity raiser would support facts there is not a problem with barbel populations

Some cracking fish being caught
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that's one of them there tongue in cheek comments because obviously you couldn't reach that sort of massively generalised conclusion based on one fishing adventure across our green and largely pleasant land.
 
A bit like the massively generalised conclusions that some spout saying all rivers will be barren wastelands devoid of fish in a few years.
Which started a few years ago.
 
Graham, this is nothing other than being a devils advocat.....but for some one being around a bit your contributions to many of a forum are totally non fact based.....ie it's your opinions/thoughts.....

Me I would say that they are self guided and wrong......

Still smoking..

Cheers
Jason
 
Yes Rhys, that would be a massive mistake. In fact as I have said the silver fish population on many southern rivers have seen a marked increase and contain a lot more roach, dace, perch etc than for many years.

However, as borne out by the recent BFW survey, the barbel population has shrunk considerably with around 80% of respondents saying their river has declined by a long way regards barbel numbers. If you took out the rivers that have been stocked with large numbers of fish...Trent/Lea etc. it would have been even more marked.


I do laugh however at the people that say that the barbel have become super clever.
As the numbers of doubles on some rivers are more likely than smaller fish it seems the oldest, more caught fish are the dimest! See the BFW posts of real anglers and the concerns raised.

I'm hopeful the present situation will improve, indeed a few smaller barbel coming out here and there.

Jason. Yes good to see how well they are doing for charity. But see above re survey outcomes.And so many posts backing up the results. Far more comprehensive than a few fish being caught.

However your last reply re otters is pretty much gobledygook. My views..of course they are open to disagreement, even if the sole purpose is to antagonise unsuccesfully. Most of your comments leave you open to ridicule. I guess too long on ***** s glorious site in the past.

Inhale less.
 
Graham, you are alone with many of your thoughts,......who of any supports them?.......it's quite obvious it's just you?
 
Hi men ,

Jason , basing barbel populations done on a charity event where people are guided , and research swims is very very flawed , and in fact would get you a severve talking to on the banks of a few rivers i used to fish . One such river , has just beaten a realy good angler , who has given up on it with a lack ( even compared to only a few seasons ago ) barbel, and a increase of crays .

Hatter
 
Jason. I refer you to the Barbel population survey carried out on BFW. Goodbye.
 
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