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Brazen Otter

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Nick Anderson said:
I stand on the right side of the law, always have done always will. Just because you have a couple of muppets agree that unlawfully killing otters and by posting things like trap em kill em gives you a tiny bit pf machismo doesn't make it right.

Must dash got a river to fill in with boilies and other goodies.
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Oh because I hold the opinions that I do I am a "muppet" am I what a rude and uncalled for thing to say, nothing to do with "machismo" and everything to do with controlling an animal that has outgrown the environment in which it lives, and continues to do so, to many of one in nature will always result in less of another.

Always stood on the right side of the law eh, mind you don't exceed the speed limit on your way to the river.
 
Steve Stringer said:
Nick,

This is not about personalities so the people who have responded to my views are not "muppets" and my "machismo" is irrelevant. This is about a serious threat to our rivers at the least, and an ongoing insidious erosion of our right to live as a proud British Nation at the other extreme.

Killing otters is against the law; full stop. I could list a raft of laws that we all transgress at some times in our lives but I'm sure you can fill in your own list. To play the "I'm a law abiding citizen" card is just hypocrisy.

I say if the end justifies the means then just do it.....................

Steve
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That is so wrong, if there has to be any culling of Otter it has to be done officially, taking the law into our own hands would be a disaster for Angling, is that what you want? Nothing to do with I have bigger balls than you, just a case of engaging brain.
 
Nick Anderson said:
Steve, if you think that the anti brigades don't look in here and other fishing sites for ammunition or intelligence then you my friend are one naive cookie. Keep posting your intentions if you must. But don't be surprised if you get a visit from either the law or the loonies that run these groups. I in no way condone either of the actions of yourself and the back slapping macho brigade nor the violence that happens by these idiots who so called look after mother earth.
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Anti brigades, where are they then, haven't seen them protesting about pollution outside Thames Water headquarters or anywhere else for that matter.

I have seen NO posts from anyone on here saying that they are going to break any laws so why should the law pay a visit, I know free speech has been eroded in this country but not freedom of thought.

There are so many people in this country anti this anti that, some would tell you that you were doing it wrong if they saw you on the toilet, I am quite willing to debate my views with anyone anti angling or whoever.

As for the loonies, well that's all they are loonies, not to be taken seriously.
 
Neil Smart said:
That is so wrong, if there has to be any culling of Otter it has to be done officially, taking the law into our own hands would be a disaster for Angling, is that what you want? Nothing to do with I have bigger balls than you, just a case of engaging brain.
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Are you so naive that you think this isn't happening already? how would it be a disaster for angling? the majority of the none angling public do not see us as guardians of waterways or the environment they see us as strange people that spend time catching fish only to put them back.

I get sick and tired of anglers thinking that we have this image that needs to be protected, if anyone wants to have an image of caring for the environment stop sticking hooks in fish for pleasure and join Green Peace or Peta or some other loony not in the real world organisation.
 
if any of those loonys decide to visit me at home or on the bank they will have far more to worry about than otters, hand in deep pocket!
 
Of course someone who drags fish out with a metal hook, says 'oh, that's nice' then puts it back, and want's to kill anything that dares to disrupt this perfectly normal pastime, is someone firmly grounded in the real world with no hint of lunacy.
 
Steve Stringer said:
Nick,

This is not about personalities so the people who have responded to my views are not "muppets" and my "machismo" is irrelevant. This is about a serious threat to our rivers at the least, and an ongoing insidious erosion of our right to live as a proud British Nation at the other extreme.

Killing otters is against the law; full stop. I could list a raft of laws that we all transgress at some times in our lives but I'm sure you can fill in your own list. To play the "I'm a law abiding citizen" card is just hypocrisy.

I say if the end justifies the means then just do it.....................

Steve
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Steve if as you say . The end justifies the means then just do it ?
It would be interesting to see what would happen if every one took that view on life .
So after we have killed all the Otters , What next on the hit list that we dont agree with ?
 
Steve Stringer said:
Nick,

This is not about personalities so the people who have responded to my views are not "muppets" and my "machismo" is irrelevant. This is about a serious threat to our rivers at the least, and an ongoing insidious erosion of our right to live as a proud British Nation at the other extreme.

Killing otters is against the law; full stop. I could list a raft of laws that we all transgress at some times in our lives but I'm sure you can fill in your own list. To play the "I'm a law abiding citizen" card is just hypocrisy.

I say if the end justifies the means then just do it.....................

Steve
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Steve , don't agree with your direct approach but I guess it's a free country . What I don't understand is why you feel the need to proclaim your views about illegally culling otters .I do feel it could have negative consequences for Angling and yourself , as animal rights activists may well approach you , and they do play very dirty . If you are going to '' do it '' well get on with it , just be quiet
 
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Anybody seen the green party manifesto, They aim to ban lead shot from angling, only 27 years out of date..lol
 
Rhys Perry said:
Of course someone who drags fish out with a metal hook, says 'oh, that's nice' then puts it back, and want's to kill anything that dares to disrupt this perfectly normal pastime, is someone firmly grounded in the real world with no hint of lunacy.
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Nobody has advocated killing "anything that cares to disrupt" angling, they have advocated control, what is so wrong about that? other creatures are managed, deer for one.

If ANY creature gets out of control and threatens the existence of other creatures they need to be controlled.
 
Joe Fletcher said:
Steve if as you say . The end justifies the means then just do it ?
It would be interesting to see what would happen if every one took that view on life .
So after we have killed all the Otters , What next on the hit list that we dont agree with ?
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Once again NOBODY has said kill all the otters.
 
Graham Young said:
Nobody has advocated killing "anything that cares to disrupt" angling, they have advocated control, what is so wrong about that? other creatures are managed, deer for one.

If ANY creature gets out of control and threatens the existence of other creatures they need to be controlled.
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Deer are controlled legally in the main. I do believe John W and Steve stringer have advocated either trapping and killing and or hitting it over the head with a hammer. So there has been talk of killing the otter.
 
Exactly, it could hardly be described as control what's been advocated, or you planning on giving the Sutcliff treatment on every third otter or something?
Don't try and dress it up to be some kind of environmentalism Graham, you lot would be more than happy to condemn the otter to virtual extinction again so you can get your easy fishing back.
As has been said before, the whole system needs sorting out then we can have fish and otters.
 
Rhys Perry said:
Exactly, it could hardly be described as control what's been advocated, or you planning on giving the Sutcliff treatment on every third otter or something?
Don't try and dress it up to be some kind of environmentalism Graham, you lot would be more than happy to condemn the otter to virtual extinction again so you can get your easy fishing back.
As has been said before, the whole system needs sorting out then we can have fish and otters.
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Please never ever presume to know what I would be happy with, you don't.

Not dressing anything up the fact is that in nature an overabundance of one will ALWAYS result in less of another.

I would never be happy to condemn any creature to "virtual extinction" but the other side of the coin is that if nothing is done otters will condemn fish in some rivers to virtual extinction. that is not acceptable to me.
 
Nick Anderson said:
Deer are controlled legally in the main. I do believe John W and Steve stringer have advocated either trapping and killing and or hitting it over the head with a hammer. So there has been talk of killing the otter.
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And your solution to what is for some anglers on the rivers they fish is???

Very easy to criticise how about putting forward some constructive ideas to deal with the problem?
 
Nick Anderson said:
Likewise Graham, haven't heard you give us the font of your knowledge.
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I would not have released otters into situations where no studies had been done to find out whether it was viable for the environment to be able to sustain them, rivers and fish stocks needed to be in a much healthier state than they were at that time or are now. however as that is not possible what can be done to control them now?


Firstly I would trap them and neuter the females thus stopping them from breeding for the rest of their lives. this would be an ongoing operation.

The males should be left alone as they will fight to the death for territory, no bad thing as it reduces populations further and is completely natural.

Where numbers of otters are out of balance with their food I would trap and cull, less pressure from otters on the fish population may allow them to recover somewhat.

As prey numbers fall due to an imbalance between prey and predator the predator numbers will fall, the question is what state do our fisheries have to be in before that will happen?

This situation has been brought about by people that had one intention and that was to reintroduce Otters at all cost and sod anything or anyone else, it now needs drastic (if unpleasant to some) action to try to put it right although I fear that for some rivers it will take many years for them to recover.

So Nick lets hear what you would do to put this situation right.[/U]
 
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