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Braid for chub fishing

#1
Hi all after some advice
I'm missing quite a few delicate bites when chubbing.Currently using softer tip rods e.g. 12' x Drennan Puddle Chucker or 12'6" Preston Carbonactive feeder with typically a 2oz tip . Current river conditions are low & clear.
Mainline will be 6lb Daiwa sensor - if maggot/caster fishing will use 4lb Guru Ngauge hooklink x 16 Drennan Wide gape or 6lb x 14 if they're having it
Will step up to larger hooks for breadflake, punched bread, cheespaste etc.
I'm downstream ledgering at about 25yards with a reasonable bow in the line, and at the weekend i did miss a lot of little bites as when striking the line pick up was just slow enough to miss them. However when I did hook them , these softer rods are great as they have plenty of shock absorption to avoid hookpulls on the lighter hooklinks yet enough to apply pressure when they kite for snags/ readbeds etc. Stamp of fish is decent, typically 3-4, with 5's regular and special ones a real possibility at this time of year so I try and always fish accordingly. I do get nervous fishing with 16's on a 4lb bottom but at the weekend that's how fine I had to go to start re-catching and it was a better stamp of fish..
And I'm convinced the tinier the bite, the bigger the fish - I do tend to strike at everything by the way.
I did change rods over to a Daiwa Theory Barbel with a 2oz tip but it was quite pronounced how much sensitivity I lost and it's a powerful rod for small hooks.
So i am considering staying with the feeder rods but swapping over to a 10lb braid, say Power Pro, for better indication on the tip.
I use very simple terminal tackle - sliding float stops either side of a running ledger bead, with the main line joined to the hooklink loop-to-loop
My concern is hook pulls/ crack offs on the strike if I join the hooklink to the braid - any advice on this?
I'm not averse to putting a quick connector on( barbel style) but prefer the current option as I constantly change the length of the hooklink through the session and can easily go from 6" to 4' in a session as they back off the feeder, flow picks up, etc
As you all know bites at this time of year are hard won, and whilst I accept that is part of the attraction of chub fishing, I do think I might be missing a trick so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
J

John Buller

Guest
#2
Hi all after some advice
I'm missing quite a few delicate bites when chubbing.Currently using softer tip rods e.g. 12' x Drennan Puddle Chucker or 12'6" Preston Carbonactive feeder with typically a 2oz tip . Current river conditions are low & clear.
Mainline will be 6lb Daiwa sensor - if maggot/caster fishing will use 4lb Guru Ngauge hooklink x 16 Drennan Wide gape or 6lb x 14 if they're having it
Will step up to larger hooks for breadflake, punched bread, cheespaste etc.
I'm downstream ledgering at about 25yards with a reasonable bow in the line, and at the weekend i did miss a lot of little bites as when striking the line pick up was just slow enough to miss them. However when I did hook them , these softer rods are great as they have plenty of shock absorption to avoid hookpulls on the lighter hooklinks yet enough to apply pressure when they kite for snags/ readbeds etc. Stamp of fish is decent, typically 3-4, with 5's regular and special ones a real possibility at this time of year so I try and always fish accordingly. I do get nervous fishing with 16's on a 4lb bottom but at the weekend that's how fine I had to go to start re-catching and it was a better stamp of fish..
And I'm convinced the tinier the bite, the bigger the fish - I do tend to strike at everything by the way.
I did change rods over to a Daiwa Theory Barbel with a 2oz tip but it was quite pronounced how much sensitivity I lost and it's a powerful rod for small hooks.
So i am considering staying with the feeder rods but swapping over to a 10lb braid, say Power Pro, for better indication on the tip.
I use very simple terminal tackle - sliding float stops either side of a running ledger bead, with the main line joined to the hooklink loop-to-loop
My concern is hook pulls/ crack offs on the strike if I join the hooklink to the braid - any advice on this?
I'm not averse to putting a quick connector on( barbel style) but prefer the current option as I constantly change the length of the hooklink through the session and can easily go from 6" to 4' in a session as they back off the feeder, flow picks up, etc
As you all know bites at this time of year are hard won, and whilst I accept that is part of the attraction of chub fishing, I do think I might be missing a trick so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hello Paul,
Try the feeder on a loop method,with a feeder just heavy enough to hold bottom.Should hook themselves IF? theres enough flow with a bow in the line.Dont strike,just lift into them,bites should show as drop backs.
Sorry,can’t help with the braid,someone here will no doubt.
Cheers,John

p.s. you could try removing the float stops from above the feeder first,if it’s stopping the feeder they could be feeling the resistance
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jon Frisby

Senior Member
#3
Are you after using braid as a mainline?? If so you don't have to fish it straight through to the feeder. I regularly just tie in a 5 foot section of fluoro leader to the braid. Then you can just use it as normal. As an alternative take a look at Guru braid and DAIWA j braid. I can help with the knots be it back to back grinned, Albright etc.
 
#4
Hello Paul,
Try the feeder on a loop method,with a feeder just heavy enough to hold bottom.Should hook themselves IF? theres enough flow with a bow in the line.Dont strike,just lift into them,bites should show as drop backs.
Sorry,can’t help with the braid,someone here will no doubt.
Cheers,John

p.s. you could try removing the float stops from above the feeder first,if it’s stopping the feeder they could be feeling the resistance
Thanks John
I forgot to mention I do use as light a feeder as possible, was down to 30gm which just held bottom. Now you mention it the flow wasn't that great and perhaps I had too much of a bow in the line as previously when there has been a bit of tow on I do fish a big bow and the majority of bites are drop backs. These were really delicate plucks
I think I know the method you mention - so the feeder runs on a loop
I usually leave a gap of about 2-3" behind the feeder when fishing shorter hook-links effectively creating a bolt effect but again that is worth a try.
Cheers
 
#5
Are you after using braid as a mainline?? If so you don't have to fish it straight through to the feeder. I regularly just tie in a 5 foot section of fluoro leader to the braid. Then you can just use it as normal. As an alternative take a look at Guru braid and DAIWA j braid. I can help with the knots be it back to back grinned, Albright etc.
Yes John that is my thought using it as a mainline. I Have some Power-Pro that's the only reason I mention this one, and I'm not allowed to spend owt for a while!!
That too is a good call and I have plenty of fluro, I do this in reverse for barbel rigs as i like a combi rig with a short length of braid hooklink tied with a back-to-back grinner to some 12lb Ghost or similar for pinning it down.
I don't mind experimenting and that's exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for.
 

Bob Watson

Senior Member
#6
I fish a method that I like to call the countdown method in flows quick enough to dislodge the feeder.

Cast the empty feeder, without hook length to your chosen spot, when it hits bottom, let line peel off the spool for a count of, say 5-10 secs, trap the line to let the bow form and if the feeder dislodges, repeat with a longer count, if the feeder holds, repeat with a shorter count. Repeat until it just holds bottom.

Use a soft enough tip so there's a nice bend in it, bites will usually see the tip spring back and the fish will usually have hooked itself against the weight of the feeder dislodging itself because it's critically balanced.
 
#7
Paul.
If you use PPro please look at the PP super slik 8. Its far superior than the standard stuff.

A tricky question because you will get more hookups using a standard avon tip. Yet probably lose more fish!

Have you considered that the fish may in fact be mouthing the feeder?

Old trick with the chub is to use an elastic band around the feeder and trap the few inches of hooklink under it leaving the hook 1 inch or less next to the feeder..

If fishing as you are, I would fix the feeder with the float stops bolt style with no free line.

Good Luck
 
#9
Thanks all for your replies. I have already tied up one rod using the power-pro to a fluro ' shock leader' and will try this
I have fished the dink rig for them and also a rig with a small cork bung pushed into the feeder holes and a hook/bait wedged into this, so similar to the elastic band principle
All methods will work on the right day but on our stretch you might have more success with ledgered lamprey than maggot feeder on certain days, and as a pal of mine says - " we all try and fish the perfect session" and with chub I wonder if this is every possible?
That's why I love fishing for them so much - very tricky customers
Thanks again,
 
#10
I would be surprised if you had issues with crack offs using a soft feeder rod...
I would be surprised if you had issues with crack offs using a soft feeder rod...
I probably didn't phrase it properly George - with the Guru Ngauge it's pre-stretched and if you get some of those vicious takes I wondered if the braid might shear the line - certainly had it happen in the summer months on mono when they hit the bait as it falls through the water and smashes hooklinks
 
#11
Ah, okay apologies, you could have a look at the leader knots they use in LRF fishing for attaching braids to fine fluoro's? 'Slim beauty' and the 'FG knot' spring to mind, I used to use these knots effectively when bream (or 'brim') fishing small lures on 4lb braid and 4lb fluoro leaders when I lived in Australia and never had a problem shearing the fine leaders...and you do have to set the hooks quite hard when a brim hits an SP or small hard lure as they have bony little mouths. You could also use a micro swivel or fly fishing tippet ring/micro rig ring to join leader and mainline of course, which would eliminate the risk entirely.
 

Mark Swaby

Senior Member
#12
Paul, do your maggots come back chewed or dead and flat when you miss a bite ?. As Graham mentioned they might well be shaking the feeder.After reading your post it shows you are an experienced angler so maybe i am going to ask you things you have already tried. Can you fish a lighter quivertip, is 2oz needed with the low flow you mention ?. Can you sit further downstream and cast up into the same catch area so you are slightly upstreaming still with a bow in the line. Do you modify the bow,sometimes i have to give two large sweeps of the rod to put a massive bow in the line to hold bottom,sometimes only a tiny flick, getting that balance exact is really important. Do you get a tiny tap then a drop back on your tip or just a tap or tap and judder? .I have used braid for chub with lighter mono hooklengths than you use but with a sigma wand which is very soft so you should be ok with 4lb hooklengths. When i used to feeder fish matches for chub i would use 4lb mono mainline with lighter hooklengths and rarely miss bites.I would always be seated, holding the rod , with the tip as high as possible,maybe you can try a lighter setup. My solution to Careful Chub is to trot for them with plenty of maggot, if you get that right they can be very easy to catch. If finances are tight then trot bread and feed mash which on its day ( a green tinge to the water) can be deadly. You have love Chub they can be the most careful challenging fish
 
#13
Paul, do your maggots come back chewed or dead and flat when you miss a bite ?. As Graham mentioned they might well be shaking the feeder.After reading your post it shows you are an experienced angler so maybe i am going to ask you things you have already tried. Can you fish a lighter quivertip, is 2oz needed with the low flow you mention ?. Can you sit further downstream and cast up into the same catch area so you are slightly upstreaming still with a bow in the line. Do you modify the bow,sometimes i have to give two large sweeps of the rod to put a massive bow in the line to hold bottom,sometimes only a tiny flick, getting that balance exact is really important. Do you get a tiny tap then a drop back on your tip or just a tap or tap and judder? .I have used braid for chub with lighter mono hooklengths than you use but with a sigma wand which is very soft so you should be ok with 4lb hooklengths. When i used to feeder fish matches for chub i would use 4lb mono mainline with lighter hooklengths and rarely miss bites.I would always be seated, holding the rod , with the tip as high as possible,maybe you can try a lighter setup. My solution to Careful Chub is to trot for them with plenty of maggot, if you get that right they can be very easy to catch. If finances are tight then trot bread and feed mash which on its day ( a green tinge to the water) can be deadly. You have love Chub they can be the most careful challenging fish
Hi Mark
Maggots are rarely chewed, either intact or gone
A lighter tip at the moment is a definite possibility but with even a slight increase in flow( spate river). A 2oz tip has a good bend in it at current levels so drop backs are very pronounced.
Changing seating position isn't possible in this swim and trotting is an option but the fish tend to congregate right at the end of the trot, which is prior to a pronounced shelf and turbulent water. I have tried trotting but am not experienced to be honest and the flow of the river always seems to take the float off line to where I know the fish are sitting. I'm guessing a longer float rod might help?
I think I definitely need to work on the bow and balance as I was probably using too big a bow at weekend because it had worked before but with quite a bit more flow in and I missed very few bites, most of which were drop backs.
I only fish the one rod and hold it. Never matched fish so I'm having to build finesse into my fishing. I do have the tip quite low to the river as I'm effectively sat at river level and sweep upstream.
I will go through 2 pints of maggots in a typical session and won't normally leave a feeder out more than 10 minutes even in the winter. I find most the bites come within the first 5 minutes and if I miss it , reel in and re-cast. That is even if I miss the bite altogether( don't strike) I do tend to retrieve and rebait. The chub I had at the weekend were all 'spewing' maggots so I felt confident that I wasn't overfeeding. When I did leave a bait out longer, about 50% of them time it was in a snag or the bait had gone so I was happy with my gut feeling to keep casting at these time intervals.
There are some real brutes and after hooking , the fight is invariably a hook and hold as I fish close to willows downstream and on opposite bank and they always try and get in behind them.. It's the initial few seconds where they bump about that I'm not confident about really light hooklinks
and of course there is always the chance of a barbel , not so much now but later in the season, and I do try and fish a set-up that gives me a fighting chance. My PB barbel was caught chubbing 2 winters ago and very hairy on a 16 hook to 6lb bottom in a big winter river :)
 

Mark Swaby

Senior Member
#14
If you fish the rod high, parallel to the bank and seated facing downstream you tend to keep more of the line out of the water so need a smaller bow to hold bottom.When you strike do it in an arc, away and inline with the bow,that will make your pick up quicker.If you miss a 'bite' its probably the feeder being taken. I always tried to hit the 1 inch tap and not wait for the drop back it made a big difference in amount of fish caught. The Loop method was the way to go but these days people realise its a tether rig because the feeder is trapped in the loop.The rig you use works so stick with it. If starting float fishing select a big 5 swan loafer float,bread hook bait and bulk shot (splits all in line all together)1/3 depth from the hook with a couple of smaller shot below and fish mash. You can correct a big float without moving it offline and also you can punch it downstream further to run it into the area it was pulling away from.The bigger float might seem a bit overkill but its easier to learn with. Good luck i hope it helps
 
#15
Well I turned up at first light with a 1.5 tc Avon rod c/ w a 2oz glass tip and a 4000 spooled with braid but also with a 5’ Fluoro leader
River was even lower this week and gin clear
First cast with feeder only to balance the bow
And it hit the clip.Only I hadn’t clipped up?
Then I noticed that there was no braid left on the spool
I have no idea how but it was a shallow match spool? Defies logic. No idea what I was thinking of
So that was that one ruined- what a dufus
However set up 2nd rod with a 20gm blackcap on 6lb mono
Then I realised that my wellies were letting in- it was 8.30 and going to be one of them days
However the bites came and a missed a few clonkers then had 3 fish on the trot. Nothing large but very welcome
Bites then became very twitchy and eventually stopped so I rested the swim, went for a warm and a brew and dropped down to a 16 on 4 lb
Immediately got bites when I restarted
One was a proper belter and the fish snapped the hook-link on the strike and felt very heavy
Re-tied and very quickly had another very positive bite and this time fish was on and felt decent. It was at 5-9 and absolutely pristine and very hard fighting on this lighter tackle
Excellent sport
Interestingly the hook was way down nearly in the pharyngeal teeth - how had it engulfed the bait so far down on such a positive bite?
The hooklink was 18” so not excessive and absolutely no indication prior to the pull round? I’m guessing with little flow the hooklink hadn’t straightened out and was close to the feeder but clearly the cold numbed by brain as I didn’t shorten right up
Ended up with 6 chub but missed a lot of bites. Reckon I hooked 1:4
I think a lot of you are right in saying these knocks are them at the feeder and I probably should have fished right close to it. Will do next time conditions allow
Long cold day( nowt worse than freezing feet) but highly enjoyable and thanks to all for advice which was implemented
Them pesky chub, don’t you just love em
 
#18
Despite all the great advice , which I have implemented, I've suffered two blanks on the last two trips and still missed bites!
Against my better judgement I'm going to brave the elements and try and avoid a hat-trick tomorrow, but under no illusions I'll be fishing for 1 or 2 bits if I'm lucky
Its that bloomin Mark Erdwin on Youtube - what a pleasure to watch and boy does he catch some beauties in all conditions.
 
#19
Well a hat trick of blanks . One of them days when it just wasn't going to happen.
We fished a number of swims, inside, mid river, tight to snags on opposite bank - paste, flake, punch, crust, maggot, steak, lamprey, worm, mini-boilie from 8 til 5.30
and had a pike rod out all day.
Not a sniff, but came off happy that we couldn't have done more than we did, and it was always going to be hard being so low, cold and clear.
My pal spotted a male goshawk hunting , which was worth the trip for him.