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Bowsfishing carp.

Chris Turnbull

Chris Turnbull

Senior Member
Well there's a thing, I've just been approached by an American bowfisher wanting to commission a painting of a carp to use as a logo for a bowfishing group. I've already made my own decision but was interested to hear how others would feel about getting a similar request?..... and what about if they were targeting barbel?
 
Bowfishing carp

Interesting point & for me this would need a few days consideration too.

To some we are a pretty hypocritical bunch anyway - we hunt, torture & if the fish is lucky, it is returned to the water to be someone else's sport another day. Essentially, we get satisfaction out of another species suffering. Objectively, this is black & white & if we allow ourselves a grey area amongst this, we apparently care for these creatures & enjoy watching them swim free in their environment. Etc., etc..

For the rest this is game fishing through & through. Is it going to happen anyway? Is it likely that a mindset, in the short/medium term, can be changed i.e not to kill their sport? Does the presence of those species (mainly) targeted have a negative influence on the chosen environment & their numbers genuinely need checking? The list goes on & on.

I probably would Cris, it's a fine line though. If I had a large amount of money in the bank or enough other work, it might swing me the other way.

Good mind twister...
 
Jon says "Essentially, we get satisfaction out of another species suffering"
As does every non-vegetarian on the planet!
A dilemma Chris for sure, bowfishing is so far removed from coarse fishing but is it that far removed from sea fishing where the quarry is killed and eaten more often than not? Not sure if you accept the commission means you endorse it or if refusing it will alter anything either. A tough one but if it was my livelihood I think I would accept.
 
Alex Gowney said:
As does every non-vegetarian on the planet!
Click to expand...

That's a pretty obvious comparison & one I did not want to include to illustrate the point. Without a reasoned response, selecting one species over another is strikingly hypocritical. Just because one hunts one particular species it does not makes it acceptable to exempt its selection from more extreme fates.
 
Chris,

Make sure there's a decent profit in it and produce your finest art, you'll be all over the states before you know it.........;)
 
unfortuatly carp in the states are classed as vermin in the waters as much as we class rats, pidgeons or seagulls as vermin.
there is no doubt in my mind our beloved barbel would be treated the same if there was a bigger head of barbel to match the carp.
if the yank asked chris to commision a corrmorant with an arrow through it and he accepted would he be a hero ?
if its buissness chris,go ahead and do it,but remember its only buissness and not your choesn sport ? ,also if you dont,someone else will, but perhaps they will enjoy it as it may be thier chosen sport.
 
Chris, as stated by the rest of the guys you have a dilemma!! However I would only add that the Bow 'Fishermen' have no interest in eating their quarry, they see Carp only as another 'Target' for their sport sanctioned only by the fact that Carp are officially classed as vermin in the US! However be under no elusion that they will only commision another Artist 'that will' if you 'will not', so take the money and accept that in this case your very well founded principles would not be heared in the US of A!!
 
Chris, Robert Cappa took some of the most famous iconic photo's of American troops being mown down by German machine guns on the Normandy beaches, i'm sure he didn't condone it but he was a Photographer and its what he did, ditto you, do the pic and take the money mate ;)
 
OK. I guess it's time to fess up....

When I first heard about bowfishing many years ago, I was into doing a fair bit of carp fishing and was appalled by the very idea of it. Nowadays I don't do any carp fishing and I look around me and see that all the lovely mixed fishery stillwaters that were once available on day ticket or reasonably priced club season tickets have almost all become highly priced carp syndicates that are often closed shops unless you are in the 'in crowed'. I fully understand the economics of the situation but this situation makes me feel sad about what fishing has become. I've even started thinking that perhaps bowfishing for carp could be a good thing in the UK, so you bet I'm gonna do the job and take the money. What's more I'll not have a tinge of guilt about doing so!

I find I am a bit surprized with myself for feeling this way, but it is the honest truth!
 
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I can just picture it now - the mist breaks on a Norfolk lake slowly revealing a lone individual in a coracle, bow string taught...

Fair enough Chris & hope that it will lead to more work in the future.

Thanks for sharing your conundrum.
 
Chris, just out of interest & if you don't mind the question - what would you have decided if this would have been barbel instead?
 
Jon Whelan said:
Chris, just out of interest & if you don't mind the question - what would you have decided if this would have been barbel instead?
Click to expand...

Well I don't think any fish should be treated with sentimental reverence like Gods, John. In Norfolk barbel are rare and, thanks to otters, they are on the Wensum's endangered list and if there is to be any barbel fishing in the future they will need protecting. Do they have barbel in the States? If they did, and they were an alien species that were causing serious ecological problems, I wouldn't have a problem with someone culling them. As for bowfishing for them, why not, if its effective?

Regarding painting a barbel for them, well it would feel a bit close to the bone but for the reasons given above, I'd probably do it, particularly as work is harder to find in these recessionary times. I might not feel too happy about doing it though!
 
More than fair comment Chris. My line of work & business has taken a massive hit due to the recession & looking at the world economy & ours, I am constantly looking for other means of revenue. Making some inroads with foreign demand is a great accolade.

Cheers, Jon
 
Jon Whelan said:
That's a pretty obvious comparison & one I did not want to include to illustrate the point. Without a reasoned response, selecting one species over another is strikingly hypocritical. Just because one hunts one particular species it does not makes it acceptable to exempt its selection from more extreme fates.
Click to expand...

It's an obvious comparison to us John but you'd be surprised to how many it isn't. Or how many won't admit it is. I fully class myself as being hypocrytical by stating I would not accept such a comission if barbel were the target, it is no problem for me to admit that. Just a well rounded, normal, fully paid up member of the human race!
 
The more I read this type of thread, the more I realise how complex they really are....your feelings are constantly being tugged first one way then the other as you read and then try to weigh up other peoples thoughts on the issues involved.

For instance, I am closer to carp fishing than Chris, as I have only recently swapped camps, close enough in fact to feel a jolt of horror at the very prospect of bowfishing for them. And I would like to think I would feel that way about doing such a thing to any creature....but then I think back to my childhood and teen years, with catapult, airgun and shotgun...and I have to admit that such a hope would be a total hypocrisy, if I am brutally honest :rolleyes:...and that worries me.

However, the most worrying thing for me about such threads is that they forcibly remind me just how fragile and probably indefensible our position as anglers really is. Certainly in this particular thread, the more I mull it over, the more difficult I find it to claim the moral high ground over bowfishermen....and that hurts a little...or quite a lot actually :eek:

Another slight worry....or perhaps I should say something that always seems a little dubious to me when it pops up (as it invariably does) in such discussions, is the old cliche which claims that 'If you don't do it, someone else will' is justification to do whatever. I dread to think what horrors that one has unleashed in the past :D:D

Anyway...Chris asked what we would have done personally, were we in his situation. Well, try as I might, I for one can find no sensible or genuine moral reason not to accept the commision, for the reasons I have already mentioned....and a lot of logical reasons to grab it with both hands, in this financial climate :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
As a Carp angler who has moved over to the USA I have to say that I have very little problem with it. Although I would prefer that they didn't do it as they tend to target the larger fish, you have to accept that it is the culture here as much as hunting for Deer or Turkey is.

As stated by others Carp here still have a vermin status. The Euro Carpers (and some Americans) are slowly getting Carp recognised as a sport fish and the idea of catch and release is slowly catching on.

For the time being though you just have to accept that bow fishing and taking Carp for the pot is just the way it is and always has been over here.

Regards
Paul
 
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