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BFW poll on close season lift or extension.

Would you like to see the close season remain?

  • Yes, keep it as it is.

    Votes: 101 41.2%
  • No, a complete lift on ban.

    Votes: 79 32.2%
  • No, but a new one put in place with more suited start and end dates. (discuss options)

    Votes: 65 26.5%

  • Total voters
    245
Fishing is Dying on its feet, clubs are not recruiting Juniors and rivers on the whole are not heavily fished due to the amount of commerical stillwaters that have sprung up over the years.
Certain rivers that hold Trout get fished by syndicates DURING the Close Season (I fish one or two) and the Fauna / wildlife is doing fine.
What are you lot going on about, you need to catch up with the times and stop living in the past.
Does anyone here that has posted not fish during the outdated close season on rivers turn to stillwaters?
Most fish are to be seen spawning AFTER the 16th June Anyway!
 
My vote is to keep it as it is.

Changing the season for Lakes and Canals changed angling for the worse, it was deemed to be important by a few selfish greedy individuals, what we ended up with is a large amount of "Commercial" fisheries and the natural rivers and lakes were ignored and basically thrown to the wolves.
The angers had little interest in "difficult angling" and as such were not there to protect these fisheries just at the time when the four biggest threats to our natural fisheries were starting inroads into our sport.

We now have Signals throughout our rivers and lakes, threatening spawning.

No silver fish in our larger rivers and public waterways, thanks to Cormorants.

Otters all over,, thanks to do gooders that were not held in check by anglers for multiple reasons.

AND

Not enough surviving fish spawning due to un-restricted high levels of Endocrine disruptors coming out of our sewerage systems.


All this because we took our eye from the ball when we were told that our sport was going to improve for the better when we change the close season rules?????

I have included a letter written by Keith Arthur, I have read and re-read it several times and can only say that I agree wholeheartedly with both the sentiment and the thrust of his argument.
Many will dis-agree, but before you nail your colours to the flag pole read and inwardly digest the following, because IF we make a change the close season laws, nothing will be the same ever again!!!!






For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Although the quote from Newton's Law relates to movement, in my experience it relates to every single facet of life. Whatever you do, in whatever context, a chain of events are set in motion. Abolishing the current close season on rivers would do that, without doubt. The debate must be who or what would benefit from it and who or what would suffer.

I will not use any emotion in the following words, relying on facts and evidence. Some of that evidence may be circumstantial and some will be 100% reliable but it is all there to be checked and verified.

In the 1970s research was carried out into the effects abolishing the close season would have on landlocked stillwater fisheries. I have no idea whether this was a national event although I believe the study was carried by Liverpool University. I was affected by it as I lived in Yateley at the time and some of the pits that ultimately became amongst the most iconic carp fisheries in the country were involved, so I got to fish for three months for £1.50 on the Car Park Lake side of the road and on Wraysbury 1 (as it was then known). The Match Lake side of the road was closed as was Wraysbury 2.

Whether any of the evidence was ever used in deciding the eventual stillwater abolition in the early 1990s I don't know.

In the mid 1980s Thames Water decided to allow 'any method' fishing on some of their storage reservoirs that were stocked with rainbow trout. These included Barn Elms in South West London and Walthamstow to the East of the capitol. Only certain baits were allowed - no groundbait, bread or maggots - as these were after all used to supply drinking water.

That action led to a reaction: some commercial fisheries, recent developments on the scene, Willow Park and Farlows Lake for example, in Thames Water's jurisdiction, started stocking rainbow trout and selling day tickets without the bait rules, just not allowing keepnets during the 91 days. That led to yet another reaction when anglers decided it was more fun and way cheaper to catch the odd trout but plenty of roach, tench and crucian, for example, than just a limited number of usually 8 trout which, on bait anyway, was soon accomplished. And there are only so many trout you can dispose of as no catch and release was allowed. The numbers fishing Barn Elms especially, simply dried up and the water was soon lost to angling.

That kind of pressure led to calls for the abolition on ALL privately-owned stillwaters as it was hardly fair that anglers in the Thames area could fish almost legitimately but no other water authority allowed it.*

That prompted the EA's immediate precursor, the National Rivers Authority to conduct a review which, in basic and simple terms decided that if people that owned their own stillwaters who were responsible for the stocked fish that lived in them were happy for them to be targetted for 12 months instead of 9 then they should be allowed to. VERY few lakes have 'natural' stocks because VERY few natural lakes exist in England and Wales. Those that do are largely populated by 'glacial' species such as trout, white fish (powan, schelly, vendace, gwyniad etc), perch and pike.

The most important part of that research considered the likely impact on rivers and, to a lesser extent, canals. Obviously canals are all man-made and, unless they have rivers running directly through them, have either been stocked artificially or 'naturally' through storage reservoirs which were dug for that purpose, most of which are filled by rivers and therefore river fish would get into them. However, the important thing to consider is that all canals are 'owned' in some respect because they were dug. Whether that ownership was private or by a nationalised body wasn't really important; whatever or whoever it was had the responsibility for the stock.

So when pressure was exerted by the Birmingham Anglers Association, the NRA conceded that canals should fall into the abolition strategy too so more people would join clubs that controlled canals instead of walking away from them and going to what was now a massive number - that is still growing - of 'commercial' fisheries.

I don't believe that the reaction to that action was as positive as the BAA hoped. Evidence would suggest otherwise, certainly in my neck of the woods where the Grand Union and Regents Canals now have no tenants in London, to my knowledge. Certainly the London Anglers' Association gave up 17 miles of it because it was largely unfished. These same sections hosted a National Championship in 1982 and clubs like Camden Raven hosted matches up to an excess of 200 competitors up to 1990. I don't know membership figures for the BAA now compared to 1994. If it has grown I'd be very surprised.

So, why were river fisheries not allowed to follow suit? The NRA research concluded that river stocks were 'discrete', which means 'individually separate and distinct'. It stated that river fish formed massive spawning aggregations and that any disruption to that could be a threat to their successful reproduction.

I've highlighted the word could because they didn't know for sure. However they believed the evidence was compelling enough to make the risk unacceptable. Remember that the fish in our rivers belong to us all, not riparian owners or councils who may own fishing rights and bank real estate. They also do not belong to fishing clubs who may control the fishing rights. They don't even belong only to anglers who, through their rod licences, pay for their safekeeping and, via their Angling Trust subscriptions, the 'insurance policy' that the EA carry out their protective and maintenance duty. They belong to The Nation and, as such cannot be put at risk.

That all happened in 1992. What has happened in the ensuing 22 years that makes that situation change and should we now, when river stocks are under the ever-increasing threat of predation and pollution, be prepared to take that risk? As we are all what would be described in house ownership as holding a 'mutually beneficial tenancy' on our rivers my conclusion is absolutely not!

How about some examples of what might happen...the 'circumstantial' evidence I mentioned at the start and also some more reactions.

During the 1970s and 1980s, as car ownership became more common and access by ferry to other countries became more accessible - as we all became richer as a nation basically - more anglers started to fish abroad, to escape the close season. Their main destinations were Ireland, Northern Ireland and, to a lesser extent thanks to some high-profile matches, Denmark. The numbers reached a peak probably immediately before abolition on stillwaters. Once abolition came in, numbers dwindled as many of those 'escapees', especially match anglers, started fishing UK based festivals, notably in Cornwall. 'Leisure' anglers also found they could catch fish far easier from their now-local and open 'commercial' fishery - and those fish fought harder too as they were usually carp rather than metronomic one-kilo bream.

Now if the fishing had remained as excellent as it was when I went to Northern Ireland in the mid-1980s perhaps the change wouldn't have been so dramatic but the quality of the fishing had gone right down the tubes. Here's an example. My week's match catches on the Erne Bait Festival in 1984 were as follows: Day one; 48.060kg (nearly 106lb), day two; 50.380kg (over 110lb), day 3; 37.770kg (over 83lb - and I fished the stick float that day as I'd drawn a duff peg and fancied a rest!). That got me 5th place on weight; Kevin Ashurst won the first day with 84kg! On the final, on a new section, 'Airport', I was SIXTH with 38.610kg (85lb) of mostly roach with the late Ray Mumford winning with 54kg on five metres of pole, loose feeding two pints of maggot. On my 'rest' day, between the festival days I won a section on the Sillies with 72lb of roach.

That was about the end of the Sillies as a match fishery. Pete Burrell had 259lb for a new World record just a few years before but the roach simply stopped returning for their spawning run. In my opinion this migration had been over-exploited, possibly a few year classes suffered, result no roach left to run! Other rivers in the same area suffered the same fate before and after as anglers sought ever-greater weights...all during our closed season and NI fish spawn about the same time as ours. The Airport section isn't a roach water any more!

Now take Denmark as another example. You may have seen the old 'Woodbine' film from 1973, on the River Guden on Youtube. There's some great angling names featured and my old mate Chris Love won the match. Not long after that the Guden simply stopped producing big weights. Ditto the Skjern where another old pal, Robbie Mittens of the great Dorking team, who died shortly before Christmas, won a Winter League final with nearly 60lb of dace. It didn't take many close seasons before they disappeared and the river became ignored too.

Even lakes such as Skandeborg, part of the Guden system, where Tom Pickering smashed the World Record with 322lb of bream only stood so much close season exploitation before becoming first as peggy as all hell and eventually a lake where 25lb was a brilliant weight, mostly perch! And Skandeborg is a BIG water!

The evidence might be considered circumstantial but is is massively compelling in my opinion.

Apart from the reaction of catches dropping, the tackle trade took a huge mauling from abolition. Where anglers who were compelled to fish turned to sea fishing or game fishing during the close season, they simply carried on fishing lakes. Initially there was a mini-boom because they all needed tackle for carp: stronger line, heavier rods and more robust reels, MUCH stronger poles and elastic and seat boxes that could be levelled. For a very brief period that compensated but that period soon expired. Pole rigs use a lot less line than reels and a rig will be used dozens of times. I'd probably re-spool my old river reels 3 or 4 times a season. Now a 50m spool will make me a dozen rigs that can last months. (I am careful...).

But FAR fewer anglers bought flies, fly lines, lugworm, sea rigs etc. Coastal shops were hard-hit, the charter boat industry declined enormously - I recall when Deal seafront was ALL charter boats, winched to and from the sea in beach launchings. No more. There may be charter boats still running from Deal but I can't find one online. I recall queuing at Tony's Bait Bar, Tony Libby's back door realistically, for 200 blow lug and, hopefully, a few yellowtails for my trips ether afloat or to the pier. Boats had to be booked WELL in advance and the pier would be packed. And, believe it or not, the fishing was **** then too, in my experience.

Many small trout fisheries, founded during the growth period for fly fishing brought about by the opening of Grafham and Rutland, that had been doing well during the three months when fly fishing for rainbows is possibly at its best, went under. Quite a few such as Springlakes and Stafford Moor, became coarse fisheries - Springlakes is, of course, now more usually known as Gold Valley.

So, if we abolish the close season on rivers the reaction could be that many of those commercial coarse fisheries will suffer the way that small commercial trout fisheries did, putting many out of business. Whether that would happen is open to conjecture but it most certainly would have some impact - a reaction to the action.

Now let's look at the latest suggestion: that fishing is banned EVERYWHERE for the whole of May and June, including those stillwaters. That would crucify them all and have a far greater impact on EVERY tackle shop because make no mistake THOUSANDS more people fish the last two weeks of June than the last two weeks in March and April added together! Would the few river anglers' business compensate? Not a hope, in my opinion and experience, having managed tackle shops for 17 years. Incidentally, the last one, Acton Angling Centre, was VERY successful until the close season was abolished. What had built up from one small shop with a tiny turnover into 4 shops and a serious business, didn't last once the close season went - and a LOT of their business revolved around the London canal.

Changing the date is, in my view, an absolute no-brainer.

There could also be other reactions. I am old enough to recall the removal of the old Thames Conservancy night fishing ban in the mid-1970s. This was brought about by a few selfish 'specimen hunters' who thought they'd catch more at night and were poaching the nights anyway. They wanted it made legal and their campaign worked. However, the average Thames angler and MANY pleasure anglers lost the free fishing they'd enjoyed from Staines upstream to Marlow with the odd exception, (downstream is still free, under Magna Carta) because riparian owners simply didn't want people on their land at night. They leased the fishing, often VERY cheaply, to clubs on condition they banned night fishing! Obviously the clubs ensured there were no poachers, so nobody benefitted. That could well happen to plenty more stretches of plenty more rivers if there is abolition.

We also have to consider the reaction that allowing coarse anglers free rein on what is the realm of the wild trout and salmon angler during April, May and June would be. This is their peak time and I have grave doubts that any stretch of water that hosts game anglers would allow coarse anglers on to their beats. This involves large stretches of River Wye for example. Once again, no benefit.

The latest clarion call of the abolitionists is: "We need research to prove that there will be no detrimental effects on fish populations." There could be no definitive proof for possibly a generation. It would take that long because many river species aren't caught by anglers until they are mature. How many bream under 6ins do you catch? How many barbel under 2lb? Not many is the answer although chub and dace are particularly suicidal as juveniles but there are still years when they are missing. Imagine losing even a single year class of a single species because of an experiment. In my view, unthinkable.

Doubtless the abolitionists will say that, despite them being open, sport on canals that are currently fished has improved immeasurably and there will be no argument from me, at least on the stretches that are still fished. However, despite being open, there is a minute number of anglers on them compared to 1990. That is 100% fact.

The same would apply on commercial fisheries where obviously roach and bream breed like...well, better than...rabbits but it has to be remembered that very few anglers fish for those roach and bream during what would be the close season, nor most of the summer, because daft carp get in first and again most of the anglers I see on most of the commercials I visit don't use tackle or baits that roach are likely to be caught on at any time of the year, only dyed-in-the-wool matchmen at weekends and if carp weights are going to win those matches, then the roach are ignored.

What river fisheries are often considered the best? Well, in the south at least, it's the rivers on which the float and maggot men are let loose once the game anglers have finished in October. Coarse fish thrive on neglect! Would accessibility for 12 months make sport better? Accessibility for nine months obviously doesn't!

Research is also costly and the Environment Agency is under huge financial pressure and will be for several years thanks to the current austerity measures and the cuts they carry. With the recent flood crises (and the flood records broken were from over 60 years ago in many cases, destroying the climate change theory when it certainly wasn't climate that caused the flooding, but bad land management) I can't imagine that the parts of the EA responsible for that will have deep cuts; public opinion alone will put paid to that. It is far more likely to be the fisheries department that suffers, in my guesstimation, and I want as many of my pennies as possible to go on fishery work rather than potentially squandered proving what was proved just 20 short years ago - and there's been some pretty serious water flowing under bridges since then, with floods in '97, '03 and 07 for many and varied parts of England and Wales.

If the angling industry feels it would be to their benefit for a deep study, lasting many years (as it must, at least a generation of species) to 'prove' anything, then let it put its hand in its pockets. I really don't want my rod licence money put into it. If they feel a levy of 1% added to tackle, or even if tackle dealers ran a voluntary contribution scheme for it, fair enough. But not my rod licence pounds, please.

You may notice that none of what I have written has any 'self' in it. I would love to be able to walk to the end of my road, where flows the Thames, when I fancy it and in May I often fancy it a great deal. The fact is I realise that it could well have a negative impact on any fish that I accidentally caught carrying roe. I've caught enough stocked rainbows and had them abort ripening eggs all over me to know it happens. I've also had male dace emit milt in February but not females discharging eggs, I must add.

The abolitionists simply want it for them, for their own ends. Some of them will have river-fishing related businesses, some will not but still fancy the idea that they can fish rivers whenever they like. Not one of them can have considered the potential impact on fish and the future of THEIR (and the rest of our) sport in the long term. It's instant gratification.

If the reaction to their action damages river life how long will it take to recover? The answer is forever because their selfish actions will lead to denial. Cormorants, otters, goosanders, signal crayfish, water quality, boats, the EA will, as they have so often, carry the can. Their desire, apparently, is to make more people take up river fishing. Sadly the only way that will happen is to build car parks, cafes, toliets and accessible swims because, thanks to the very same calls for the abolition on stillwaters, that is now the status quo for most anglers these days.

As I have written before, if someone can explain to me what's in it for the fish, my peaceful quarry for the past 60 years of my life, I'd be greatly obliged. Up until now, I've only heard and read about benefits for a selfish few.


*There had never been a close season in Devon and Cornwall because there were so few coarse fish there (until the late Bill Knott, especially, started stocking some of the old mine ponds and flooded workings), and fully-enclosed and private stillwaters in Lincolnshire, on the many caravan and holiday parks were also not closed
 
My vote is to keep it as it is.

Changing the season for Lakes and Canals changed angling for the worse, it was deemed to be important by a few selfish greedy individuals, what we ended up with is a large amount of "Commercial" fisheries and the natural rivers and lakes were ignored and basically thrown to the wolves.
The angers had little interest in "difficult angling" and as such were not there to protect these fisheries just at the time when the four biggest threats to our natural fisheries were starting inroads into our sport.

We now have Signals throughout our rivers and lakes, threatening spawning.

No silver fish in our larger rivers and public waterways, thanks to Cormorants.

Otters all over,, thanks to do gooders that were not held in check by anglers for multiple reasons.

AND

Not enough surviving fish spawning due to un-restricted high levels of Endocrine disruptors coming out of our sewerage systems.


All this because we took our eye from the ball when we were told that our sport was going to improve for the better when we change the close season rules?????

I have included a letter written by Keith Arthur, I have read and re-read it several times and can only say that I agree wholeheartedly with both the sentiment and the thrust of his argument.
Many will dis-agree, but before you nail your colours to the flag pole read and inwardly digest the following, because IF we make a change the close season laws, nothing will be the same ever again!!!!






For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Although the quote from Newton's Law relates to movement, in my experience it relates to every single facet of life. Whatever you do, in whatever context, a chain of events are set in motion. Abolishing the current close season on rivers would do that, without doubt. The debate must be who or what would benefit from it and who or what would suffer.

I will not use any emotion in the following words, relying on facts and evidence. Some of that evidence may be circumstantial and some will be 100% reliable but it is all there to be checked and verified.

In the 1970s research was carried out into the effects abolishing the close season would have on landlocked stillwater fisheries. I have no idea whether this was a national event although I believe the study was carried by Liverpool University. I was affected by it as I lived in Yateley at the time and some of the pits that ultimately became amongst the most iconic carp fisheries in the country were involved, so I got to fish for three months for £1.50 on the Car Park Lake side of the road and on Wraysbury 1 (as it was then known). The Match Lake side of the road was closed as was Wraysbury 2.

Whether any of the evidence was ever used in deciding the eventual stillwater abolition in the early 1990s I don't know.

In the mid 1980s Thames Water decided to allow 'any method' fishing on some of their storage reservoirs that were stocked with rainbow trout. These included Barn Elms in South West London and Walthamstow to the East of the capitol. Only certain baits were allowed - no groundbait, bread or maggots - as these were after all used to supply drinking water.

That action led to a reaction: some commercial fisheries, recent developments on the scene, Willow Park and Farlows Lake for example, in Thames Water's jurisdiction, started stocking rainbow trout and selling day tickets without the bait rules, just not allowing keepnets during the 91 days. That led to yet another reaction when anglers decided it was more fun and way cheaper to catch the odd trout but plenty of roach, tench and crucian, for example, than just a limited number of usually 8 trout which, on bait anyway, was soon accomplished. And there are only so many trout you can dispose of as no catch and release was allowed. The numbers fishing Barn Elms especially, simply dried up and the water was soon lost to angling.

That kind of pressure led to calls for the abolition on ALL privately-owned stillwaters as it was hardly fair that anglers in the Thames area could fish almost legitimately but no other water authority allowed it.*

That prompted the EA's immediate precursor, the National Rivers Authority to conduct a review which, in basic and simple terms decided that if people that owned their own stillwaters who were responsible for the stocked fish that lived in them were happy for them to be targetted for 12 months instead of 9 then they should be allowed to. VERY few lakes have 'natural' stocks because VERY few natural lakes exist in England and Wales. Those that do are largely populated by 'glacial' species such as trout, white fish (powan, schelly, vendace, gwyniad etc), perch and pike.

The most important part of that research considered the likely impact on rivers and, to a lesser extent, canals. Obviously canals are all man-made and, unless they have rivers running directly through them, have either been stocked artificially or 'naturally' through storage reservoirs which were dug for that purpose, most of which are filled by rivers and therefore river fish would get into them. However, the important thing to consider is that all canals are 'owned' in some respect because they were dug. Whether that ownership was private or by a nationalised body wasn't really important; whatever or whoever it was had the responsibility for the stock.

So when pressure was exerted by the Birmingham Anglers Association, the NRA conceded that canals should fall into the abolition strategy too so more people would join clubs that controlled canals instead of walking away from them and going to what was now a massive number - that is still growing - of 'commercial' fisheries.

I don't believe that the reaction to that action was as positive as the BAA hoped. Evidence would suggest otherwise, certainly in my neck of the woods where the Grand Union and Regents Canals now have no tenants in London, to my knowledge. Certainly the London Anglers' Association gave up 17 miles of it because it was largely unfished. These same sections hosted a National Championship in 1982 and clubs like Camden Raven hosted matches up to an excess of 200 competitors up to 1990. I don't know membership figures for the BAA now compared to 1994. If it has grown I'd be very surprised.

So, why were river fisheries not allowed to follow suit? The NRA research concluded that river stocks were 'discrete', which means 'individually separate and distinct'. It stated that river fish formed massive spawning aggregations and that any disruption to that could be a threat to their successful reproduction.

I've highlighted the word could because they didn't know for sure. However they believed the evidence was compelling enough to make the risk unacceptable. Remember that the fish in our rivers belong to us all, not riparian owners or councils who may own fishing rights and bank real estate. They also do not belong to fishing clubs who may control the fishing rights. They don't even belong only to anglers who, through their rod licences, pay for their safekeeping and, via their Angling Trust subscriptions, the 'insurance policy' that the EA carry out their protective and maintenance duty. They belong to The Nation and, as such cannot be put at risk.

That all happened in 1992. What has happened in the ensuing 22 years that makes that situation change and should we now, when river stocks are under the ever-increasing threat of predation and pollution, be prepared to take that risk? As we are all what would be described in house ownership as holding a 'mutually beneficial tenancy' on our rivers my conclusion is absolutely not!

How about some examples of what might happen...the 'circumstantial' evidence I mentioned at the start and also some more reactions.

During the 1970s and 1980s, as car ownership became more common and access by ferry to other countries became more accessible - as we all became richer as a nation basically - more anglers started to fish abroad, to escape the close season. Their main destinations were Ireland, Northern Ireland and, to a lesser extent thanks to some high-profile matches, Denmark. The numbers reached a peak probably immediately before abolition on stillwaters. Once abolition came in, numbers dwindled as many of those 'escapees', especially match anglers, started fishing UK based festivals, notably in Cornwall. 'Leisure' anglers also found they could catch fish far easier from their now-local and open 'commercial' fishery - and those fish fought harder too as they were usually carp rather than metronomic one-kilo bream.

Now if the fishing had remained as excellent as it was when I went to Northern Ireland in the mid-1980s perhaps the change wouldn't have been so dramatic but the quality of the fishing had gone right down the tubes. Here's an example. My week's match catches on the Erne Bait Festival in 1984 were as follows: Day one; 48.060kg (nearly 106lb), day two; 50.380kg (over 110lb), day 3; 37.770kg (over 83lb - and I fished the stick float that day as I'd drawn a duff peg and fancied a rest!). That got me 5th place on weight; Kevin Ashurst won the first day with 84kg! On the final, on a new section, 'Airport', I was SIXTH with 38.610kg (85lb) of mostly roach with the late Ray Mumford winning with 54kg on five metres of pole, loose feeding two pints of maggot. On my 'rest' day, between the festival days I won a section on the Sillies with 72lb of roach.

That was about the end of the Sillies as a match fishery. Pete Burrell had 259lb for a new World record just a few years before but the roach simply stopped returning for their spawning run. In my opinion this migration had been over-exploited, possibly a few year classes suffered, result no roach left to run! Other rivers in the same area suffered the same fate before and after as anglers sought ever-greater weights...all during our closed season and NI fish spawn about the same time as ours. The Airport section isn't a roach water any more!

Now take Denmark as another example. You may have seen the old 'Woodbine' film from 1973, on the River Guden on Youtube. There's some great angling names featured and my old mate Chris Love won the match. Not long after that the Guden simply stopped producing big weights. Ditto the Skjern where another old pal, Robbie Mittens of the great Dorking team, who died shortly before Christmas, won a Winter League final with nearly 60lb of dace. It didn't take many close seasons before they disappeared and the river became ignored too.

Even lakes such as Skandeborg, part of the Guden system, where Tom Pickering smashed the World Record with 322lb of bream only stood so much close season exploitation before becoming first as peggy as all hell and eventually a lake where 25lb was a brilliant weight, mostly perch! And Skandeborg is a BIG water!

The evidence might be considered circumstantial but is is massively compelling in my opinion.

Apart from the reaction of catches dropping, the tackle trade took a huge mauling from abolition. Where anglers who were compelled to fish turned to sea fishing or game fishing during the close season, they simply carried on fishing lakes. Initially there was a mini-boom because they all needed tackle for carp: stronger line, heavier rods and more robust reels, MUCH stronger poles and elastic and seat boxes that could be levelled. For a very brief period that compensated but that period soon expired. Pole rigs use a lot less line than reels and a rig will be used dozens of times. I'd probably re-spool my old river reels 3 or 4 times a season. Now a 50m spool will make me a dozen rigs that can last months. (I am careful...).

But FAR fewer anglers bought flies, fly lines, lugworm, sea rigs etc. Coastal shops were hard-hit, the charter boat industry declined enormously - I recall when Deal seafront was ALL charter boats, winched to and from the sea in beach launchings. No more. There may be charter boats still running from Deal but I can't find one online. I recall queuing at Tony's Bait Bar, Tony Libby's back door realistically, for 200 blow lug and, hopefully, a few yellowtails for my trips ether afloat or to the pier. Boats had to be booked WELL in advance and the pier would be packed. And, believe it or not, the fishing was **** then too, in my experience.

Many small trout fisheries, founded during the growth period for fly fishing brought about by the opening of Grafham and Rutland, that had been doing well during the three months when fly fishing for rainbows is possibly at its best, went under. Quite a few such as Springlakes and Stafford Moor, became coarse fisheries - Springlakes is, of course, now more usually known as Gold Valley.

So, if we abolish the close season on rivers the reaction could be that many of those commercial coarse fisheries will suffer the way that small commercial trout fisheries did, putting many out of business. Whether that would happen is open to conjecture but it most certainly would have some impact - a reaction to the action.

Now let's look at the latest suggestion: that fishing is banned EVERYWHERE for the whole of May and June, including those stillwaters. That would crucify them all and have a far greater impact on EVERY tackle shop because make no mistake THOUSANDS more people fish the last two weeks of June than the last two weeks in March and April added together! Would the few river anglers' business compensate? Not a hope, in my opinion and experience, having managed tackle shops for 17 years. Incidentally, the last one, Acton Angling Centre, was VERY successful until the close season was abolished. What had built up from one small shop with a tiny turnover into 4 shops and a serious business, didn't last once the close season went - and a LOT of their business revolved around the London canal.

Changing the date is, in my view, an absolute no-brainer.

There could also be other reactions. I am old enough to recall the removal of the old Thames Conservancy night fishing ban in the mid-1970s. This was brought about by a few selfish 'specimen hunters' who thought they'd catch more at night and were poaching the nights anyway. They wanted it made legal and their campaign worked. However, the average Thames angler and MANY pleasure anglers lost the free fishing they'd enjoyed from Staines upstream to Marlow with the odd exception, (downstream is still free, under Magna Carta) because riparian owners simply didn't want people on their land at night. They leased the fishing, often VERY cheaply, to clubs on condition they banned night fishing! Obviously the clubs ensured there were no poachers, so nobody benefitted. That could well happen to plenty more stretches of plenty more rivers if there is abolition.

We also have to consider the reaction that allowing coarse anglers free rein on what is the realm of the wild trout and salmon angler during April, May and June would be. This is their peak time and I have grave doubts that any stretch of water that hosts game anglers would allow coarse anglers on to their beats. This involves large stretches of River Wye for example. Once again, no benefit.

The latest clarion call of the abolitionists is: "We need research to prove that there will be no detrimental effects on fish populations." There could be no definitive proof for possibly a generation. It would take that long because many river species aren't caught by anglers until they are mature. How many bream under 6ins do you catch? How many barbel under 2lb? Not many is the answer although chub and dace are particularly suicidal as juveniles but there are still years when they are missing. Imagine losing even a single year class of a single species because of an experiment. In my view, unthinkable.

Doubtless the abolitionists will say that, despite them being open, sport on canals that are currently fished has improved immeasurably and there will be no argument from me, at least on the stretches that are still fished. However, despite being open, there is a minute number of anglers on them compared to 1990. That is 100% fact.

The same would apply on commercial fisheries where obviously roach and bream breed like...well, better than...rabbits but it has to be remembered that very few anglers fish for those roach and bream during what would be the close season, nor most of the summer, because daft carp get in first and again most of the anglers I see on most of the commercials I visit don't use tackle or baits that roach are likely to be caught on at any time of the year, only dyed-in-the-wool matchmen at weekends and if carp weights are going to win those matches, then the roach are ignored.

What river fisheries are often considered the best? Well, in the south at least, it's the rivers on which the float and maggot men are let loose once the game anglers have finished in October. Coarse fish thrive on neglect! Would accessibility for 12 months make sport better? Accessibility for nine months obviously doesn't!

Research is also costly and the Environment Agency is under huge financial pressure and will be for several years thanks to the current austerity measures and the cuts they carry. With the recent flood crises (and the flood records broken were from over 60 years ago in many cases, destroying the climate change theory when it certainly wasn't climate that caused the flooding, but bad land management) I can't imagine that the parts of the EA responsible for that will have deep cuts; public opinion alone will put paid to that. It is far more likely to be the fisheries department that suffers, in my guesstimation, and I want as many of my pennies as possible to go on fishery work rather than potentially squandered proving what was proved just 20 short years ago - and there's been some pretty serious water flowing under bridges since then, with floods in '97, '03 and 07 for many and varied parts of England and Wales.

If the angling industry feels it would be to their benefit for a deep study, lasting many years (as it must, at least a generation of species) to 'prove' anything, then let it put its hand in its pockets. I really don't want my rod licence money put into it. If they feel a levy of 1% added to tackle, or even if tackle dealers ran a voluntary contribution scheme for it, fair enough. But not my rod licence pounds, please.

You may notice that none of what I have written has any 'self' in it. I would love to be able to walk to the end of my road, where flows the Thames, when I fancy it and in May I often fancy it a great deal. The fact is I realise that it could well have a negative impact on any fish that I accidentally caught carrying roe. I've caught enough stocked rainbows and had them abort ripening eggs all over me to know it happens. I've also had male dace emit milt in February but not females discharging eggs, I must add.

The abolitionists simply want it for them, for their own ends. Some of them will have river-fishing related businesses, some will not but still fancy the idea that they can fish rivers whenever they like. Not one of them can have considered the potential impact on fish and the future of THEIR (and the rest of our) sport in the long term. It's instant gratification.

If the reaction to their action damages river life how long will it take to recover? The answer is forever because their selfish actions will lead to denial. Cormorants, otters, goosanders, signal crayfish, water quality, boats, the EA will, as they have so often, carry the can. Their desire, apparently, is to make more people take up river fishing. Sadly the only way that will happen is to build car parks, cafes, toliets and accessible swims because, thanks to the very same calls for the abolition on stillwaters, that is now the status quo for most anglers these days.

As I have written before, if someone can explain to me what's in it for the fish, my peaceful quarry for the past 60 years of my life, I'd be greatly obliged. Up until now, I've only heard and read about benefits for a selfish few.


*There had never been a close season in Devon and Cornwall because there were so few coarse fish there (until the late Bill Knott, especially, started stocking some of the old mine ponds and flooded workings), and fully-enclosed and private stillwaters in Lincolnshire, on the many caravan and holiday parks were also not closed

Brilliant post Keith.
 
Thanks for sharing Keith's letter.

I remember the tackle trade rejoicing thinking that a partial abolition would see them strike gold. We now know that is so far from what has happened. Two local shops have gone in my neck of the woods, one of the better ones only last week. We can blame the internet for this demise but I am not convinced that would be right. The internet has been about for a while and many shops have opened and then gone during this period.
 
Fishing is Dying on its feet, clubs are not recruiting Juniors and rivers on the whole are not heavily fished due to the amount of commerical stillwaters that have sprung up over the years.
Certain rivers that hold Trout get fished by syndicates DURING the Close Season (I fish one or two) and the Fauna / wildlife is doing fine.
What are you lot going on about, you need to catch up with the times and stop living in the past.
Does anyone here that has posted not fish during the outdated close season on rivers turn to stillwaters?
Most fish are to be seen spawning AFTER the 16th June Anyway!

We have a lot more tackle companies now than when we had 30 years ago, so no doubt with such a variety of equipment available surely they each may not have such high profits as they once did. And as for bait companies, the numbers of these must be frightening.
You can't say gear isn't selling as carp fishing has become more and more popular with more anglers requiring multi rod set ups. The same with barbel fishing, many are using 2 rods. The fittest will survive.
It doesn't seem that long ago when I fished competitions, and you'd get three people in a Ford Cortina going to a match. These days match anglers seem to need a van each.
Nobody likes to see a tackle shop or company go bump, but it will happen in this current climate and I don't believe ridding the close season is a cure for the problem. Tackle shops used to be full of people buying maggots, and you couldn't just go in for some maggots could you? I bet the majority of anglers biggest spend was during the old close season.
We fisherman shoot ourselves in the foot sometimes.If fish are spawning after the 16th June, then don't fish for them.
It doesn't seem right that so many waters are so heavily stocked we need pumps on the lakes to keep the fish alive, but somehow we justify it.

We have enough to deal with, including predation and poaching, but in my opinion the fish could do with a break.
 
It doesn't matter to me as I fish the same spot on the goyt day in day out. Yes im boring but I catch stuff.
 
The writing is on the wall, the future is commercial fisheries, probably not the future but very much here and now. The Rivers have been the poor relation in the fishing world for some time, as soon as the easy pickings became less easy the ponds were the attraction. And who can blame anglers not wanting some action with their hard earned time off.

How many river blanks do you have to suffer before the guaranteed catch of a few sill water Carp or Barbel become attractive?

It's a must have at any cost society, and commercials are the ideal tool to satisfy that, Rivers are far less attractive , with match weights and pleasure catches unpredictable, why bother with the likes of supporting Luton Town (or similar) when we can become the next supporter of whoever wins the Premier league?

We are impatient, waiting for rewards is not an option for many...

So.. :eek: The river closed season is a non issue really, but for the dwindling River Angler species it is a time to reflect on the madness of the world and start all over again on the 16th June...


I wouldn't change a damn thing :)
 
Hi men,

I think your right Neil , nothing is going to change anyway , and not anytime soon . But a couple more points , our local canal which is as close to an example of river fishing through the c/s as possible shows no sign of problems with fish stocks , and I walked miles of it the other day including some really well known big carp swims , they were overgrown in as much nature is growing faster than we wear it down !:D . If rivers were open , then I can never see anglers other than those who fish them normally taking up the opportunity them anyway . On a bit of river me and you fish ;) , have a look at the top 3 swims , seems not being there for us don't matter !

On a different tact ,I also find the reffences on lots of web sites and threads on here like "muddy puddle " , "pond pigs" , "commercial ponds" very condercending , as I started my fishing 50 years ago this June on the very same bit of canal I'm fishing for a couple of hours on Saturday !, but had these little I dependant fisheries been around in my days I'm sure I would have been on them , they serve a purpose , and some iv seen are really nice !.

Hatter ( Luton are back to get you Watford )
 
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Hi men,

I think your right Neil , nothing is going to change anyway , and not anytime soon . But a couple more points , our local canal which is as close to an example of river fishing through the c/s as possible shows no sign of problems with fish stocks , and I walked miles of it the other day including some really well known big carp swims , they were overgrown in as much nature is growing faster than we wear it down !:D . If rivers were open , then I can never see anglers other than those who fish them normally taking up the opportunity them anyway . On a bit of river me and you fish ;) , have a look at the top 3 swims , seems not being there for us don't matter !

On a different tact ,I also find the reffences on lots of web sites and threads on here like "muddy puddle " , "pond pigs" , "commercial ponds" very condercending , as I started my fishing 50 years ago this June on the very same bit of canal I'm fishing for a couple of hours on Saturday !, but had these little I dependant fisheries been around in my days I'm sure I would have been on them , they serve a purpose , and some iv seen are really nice !.

Hatter ( Luton are back to get you Watford )
Some commercials are good and have good fish, but others, the fish are in a very poor condition indeed.:eek:
 
Keith, you mentioned Chris Love, is that the same chris Love that used to be a butcher and once lived near dalston/stoke newington and fished for "the Dalston AS" back in the 60s, if it is i would love to contact him as we used to both work together and fish together in our teens mate, great post and fully agree with your views on the subject mate:)
 
Hi John

Actually it was Keith Arthur that mentioned "Chris Love" in his letter, although I fished against Chris several times (and spoke to him when he approached me to fish for DAM Dorking), I have no idea what he did for a living, he was a very good angler and more importantly a smashing bloke, he could have been a Butcher as all the Butchers I have met are all worth knowing..

I "poached" Keith's letter because I thought it put forward a better argument than I had the time to write (or had the ability to write:) ) on a subject that is dear to my heart.
I was very much against the changes made in 1992, I would like to say I was clever enough to predict how massively our sport would change (I wasn't) but I did realise that the moment the close season rules changed, life in our sport would change forever, I expected a decline, but not the wholesale ruination of a sport I love dearly.
Some would say we can now fish for more and bigger fish, thanks to the growth of the resultant commercial fisheries, that is true (if you like to catch 3lb Pond Pigs with ruined mouths), my problem is that I like to fish for wild fish, in their natural homes, over the last 22 years we have seen the largest decline in silver fish stocks that has ever occurred, now I know there are multiple and complex reasons for this and it is easy to lay blame in all sorts of directions, but the main fault is with us, the anglers, we saw what was happening and did nothing!!!!!

For bad things to happen, it only takes a few good people to keep silent!!
This catastrophe may have happened, come what may, but for me it is not a coincidence!

This tread has produced lots and lots of arguments, stating the advantages to a variety of differing anglers...................................BUT!
I have yet to read a convincing argument that shows a definitive advantage, to and for the varying fish species!...................................And they must be more important than ANY other consideration!
 
Okay, devils advocate time here.

I thought we were into the 19th no closed season (1995?) so if the decline has been happening for 22 years then it started before the abolishment of the closed on stillwaters?

What harm has the closed season abolishment on stillwaters done to rivers?

What good is the closed season doing to river fish now? We are experiencing the decline in river sport with the closed season in effect.

Is whats being argued is that things will get worse if the closed season is abolished on rivers as opposed to the closed season having an actual measurable postive effect?

Not nitpicking or arguing just thought the answers to the above might add some clarity. Id change the dates personally as I don’t have any emotional attachment to June 16th.
 
Let's get one thing straight here. The close was put into place not to protect course fish but rather to keep the hoi polloi who fish for them off the banks and out of the way of the fluf flingers.
 
Let's get one thing straight here. The close was put into place not to protect course fish but rather to keep the hoi polloi who fish for them off the banks and out of the way of the fluf flingers.





I think you will find that it came about because of the Mundella act of 1878, although the reasons for it now do not generally exist.
 
I'd never heard of this, so had a peruse on google and came up with this article:
The Early History of the Coarse Fishing Season

The line at the end of the following paragraph is worth noting:

The Coarse fishing season first saw the light of day under the Mundella Act of 1878. Mr Mundella was a Member of Parliament for Sheffield, although not an angler himself, he was lobbied by the local angling fraternity of the city (Sheffield at the time was a centre of intense coarse fishing activity), to help place some form of legislation to help protect coarse fish. The drafting of the bill was left to Messrs Spencer Walpole and Frank Buckland. Spencer Walpole was an inspector of Salmon Fisheries and Frank Buckland a prominent member of the Piscatorial Society. Interestingly, both men were salmon anglers.

You can use the link above to see the rest of the article.
 
I would like to keep it kept, though on the Gt Ouse, can't see there being any real impact, as there's hardly an angler on it's banks these days.

My bitch about keeping it, has always been to give the banks a rest in the period when all the natural stuff is growing, mating and bringing up their young-uns.

But also, so as the the individual can catch up with the rest of his/her family and not skive off all those jobs they keep promising to do around the house and garden. (you know who you are ;) )

There's also the issue of giving all that tackle a thorough clean and service. Many, including myself here, never even take the mud off the bottom of the hold-all for a full season.
 
I think all this high-minded hand wringing is rather lost on people like the bloke I've just seen fishing on the Stour in the middle of Kidderminster town centre. I doubt very much whether his session will be disturbed by any passing policemen or environment agency officers.

A law not enforced should be repealed.
 
I think all this high-minded hand wringing is rather lost on people like the bloke I've just seen fishing on the Stour in the middle of Kidderminster town centre. I doubt very much whether his session will be disturbed by any passing policemen or environment agency officers.

A law not enforced should be repealed.

Not sure I follow that Andrew. Should I only respect the law if I think there is a prospect of being caught breaking it? My general attitude to such things is that I believe laws are necessary and as such I will observe them, even though I may not agree with them or even the process by which they have come about. And that's because I believe in democracy.

That said, I have driven above the speed limit and even suffered a short ban many years ago. Highly disruptive but I could hardly complain-I broke the law.

Did you challenge the individual? I did recently when I found 2 young chaps fishing a stretch of river. They quickly packed up and legged it. And yes, quite probably to fish further down the river out of sight.
 
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