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Beaver reintroduction success.

Chris Guy

Senior Member
file:///C:/Users/Harold/Downloads/NECR470%20Edition%201%20Wild%20beaver%20population%20assessment%20on%20the%20River%20Avon%20and%20tributaries_V1.2%20(3).pdf
file:///C:/Users/Harold/Downloads/NECR470%20Edition%201%20Wild%20beaver%20population%20assessment%20on%20the%20River%20Avon%20and%20tributaries_V1.2%20(3).pdf

I wonder what other river systems have had introductions.
 
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The answer is loads.

They were introduced (illegally) in the Cotswold water park about a decade ago and significant numbers have been released and/or escaped (depends who you ask!) from their enclosure.

Natural England want beavers back nationwide. To avoid the publicity of a National introduction programme they opted for a series of ‘soft’ releases to reach the same ending, but by stealth.

As a near neighbour to the CWP release site, beavers have been nothing but a menace to local landowners. They have done nothing good to my fishery and cost me a significant sum in rectifying the problems they have created.

There may also be a connection between the beavers released here and the appearance of beavers on the upper Bristol Avon….it is not far at all…..

Two beavers ‘escaped’ from the CWP enclosure in its early days and one nearly got to Oxford (along the Thames) before it was recaptured.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
Interesting perspective Tim.

My view is that NE outwardly claim to support beaver reintroduction trials, while seemingly doing everything they can behind the scenes to make the licencing procedure almost impossible for landowners wishing to undertake release trials.

BTW, the Otter beavers were not licenced releases. Defra would have culled them were it not for landowners (a farming family) whose land they were on pushing back against officialdom.
 
Slightly off topic I know but possibly of interest. We have otters on the nene and it is not uncommon to see three or four individuals throughout the course of a days fishing, they are not in the slightest bit bothered by anglers. In October my wife and I spent a week on the Wye and within 20 minutes of getting on the bank came across a family group of otters, mother and young ones. These otters were much smaller than the ones encountered on the nene and very wary of humans. I spoke to a local guide who knew of the group and who informed me that unlike the nene otters these were wild animals hence the difference in both size and behaviour, also interestingly he states that they seem mainly to take smaller silver fish and devour the entire carcass where as the nene otters seem to enjoy eating the choice parts of larger fish and discarding the remainder. Again I’m guessing that this is maybe the result of being bred and released rather than natural behaviour.
 
Interesting perspective Tim.

My view is that NE outwardly claim to support beaver reintroduction trials, while seemingly doing everything they can behind the scenes to make the licencing procedure almost impossible for landowners wishing to undertake release trials.

BTW, the Otter beavers were not licenced releases. Defra would have culled them were it not for landowners (a farming family) whose land they were on pushing back against officialdom.
That doesn’t square with my experience.

I contacted NE when beavers started trashing my site (which is a SSSI). They weren’t interested and told me about the ‘soft release’ programme. They referred me to my local ‘wildlife crime’ officers who were worse than useless. It took them about 2 months to visit and then they didn’t understand the issues or do anything constructive……

The only people that helped were the Angling Trust (Mark Owen) who actually came down here and visited a few lakes that had been impacted. AT then got involved in discussions about the legislation relating to beavers.

Beavers are now protected - so NE are winning; one way or another.
 
The negative experience you have had is unfortunate. But it might be a cost to you however the theory in what good they do in creating upper river pools so minimising flooding downstream seems a pretty convincing argument in favour of them.
These natures engineering superstars create many new habitats for a diverse number of species and I have heard nothing but positively ..up to now.🙄
 
I'm generally all for rewilding schemes, I think its fantastic, when we live in one of the most nature depleted countries on the planet. Bring it on!

This said I see nothing but conflict ahead with Beavers, as in the UK we have no true wilderness (and that includes Scotland) or significant areas of land set aside for wildlife. The main problem is that all land is owned by someone. If you are say a farmer and you have a couple of small streams running across your farm and along come the beavers, which start felling trees and building dams across these streams, said farmer could lose a large proportion of his land to farming. We could also end up with a situation where farmers/landowners start clearing wooded areas to dissuade Beavers from taking up residence! The only solution is for us as tax payers to pay more to landowners to set this land aside for wildlife, but where does it end and eventually you end up culling them anyway. This brings controversy as there's too many people who will object, but don't understand how real conservation and land management works.

Only a few years ago, around 90 Beavers were legally culled in Scotland due to conflict with landowners. I know that legal challenges came in to NatureScot re this policy, but without searching further, I'm not sure how it panned out?

I also note that the RSPB are not all over Beaver reintroductions and I can understand why. When you are carefully managing water levels on a wetland reserve such at Minsmere, Leighton Moss, Lakenheath Fen, etc, I would image that Beavers will cause absolute carnage with this process. I can see the future headline now 'RSPB seeks permission to trap and remove Beavers from Natural England!'
 
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Again I am at a loss as to this negatively regarding so called habitat destruction by Beaver...They in the scheme of things have been integral in developing a diverse healthy habitat not only for them but for a myriad of other species, fish frogs toads dragonfly voles in fact a huge amount of natures larder for a multitude of species. So what if by introduction a few landowners are inconvenienced or the shoot losing a bit of income.
Agriculture is suffocating the wild, land is over farmed and yet something so pure and beneficial as this is met with derision and profit and loss.
Surely to God at least on here we should be not opposed to this? Leave that to others.
 
Slightly off topic I know but possibly of interest. We have otters on the nene and it is not uncommon to see three or four individuals throughout the course of a days fishing, they are not in the slightest bit bothered by anglers. In October my wife and I spent a week on the Wye and within 20 minutes of getting on the bank came across a family group of otters, mother and young ones. These otters were much smaller than the ones encountered on the nene and very wary of humans. I spoke to a local guide who knew of the group and who informed me that unlike the nene otters these were wild animals hence the difference in both size and behaviour, also interestingly he states that they seem mainly to take smaller silver fish and devour the entire carcass where as the nene otters seem to enjoy eating the choice parts of larger fish and discarding the remainder. Again I’m guessing that this is maybe the result of being bred and released rather than natural behaviour.
I think to compare two groups of otters albeit in different rivers with one tame and the other wild is fanciful thinking.
I can't imagine any Otter that had survived this long exhibits any hand fed traits.
Yes I think you maybe guessing.😄
 
That doesn’t square with my experience.

I contacted NE when beavers started trashing my site (which is a SSSI). They weren’t interested and told me about the ‘soft release’ programme. They referred me to my local ‘wildlife crime’ officers who were worse than useless. It took them about 2 months to visit and then they didn’t understand the issues or do anything constructive……

The only people that helped were the Angling Trust (Mark Owen) who actually came down here and visited a few lakes that had been impacted. AT then got involved in discussions about the legislation relating to beavers.

Beavers are now protected - so NE are winning; one way or another.

I hope the beavers obtained the appropriate permissions before carrying out work in the SSSI 😂

Tim, not wanting to assume too much could you elaborate a bit more on the nature of the site and the problems they’ve caused?
 
I hope the beavers obtained the appropriate permissions before carrying out work in the SSSI 😂

Tim, not wanting to assume too much could you elaborate a bit more on the nature of the site and the problems they’ve caused?
Chopping big trees down and dropping them in the lake. £200 a time to get them dragged out.

Chopping down most of the quality trees on the site (and many on neighbouring properties) including newly planted ones.

Undermining banks With tunnels.

Undermining the road adjacent to the lake with a tunnel.

Dropping a big tree across a public road and then I get done for ‘contributory negligence’ (according to the AT solicitor). Luckily that was averted by some life threatening tree surgery (not by me).

If I had the time I would walk to the original beaver enclosure and take some pictures for you. It looks like a bomb has gone off - nothing environmentally positive about it at all.

You can criticise me all you like. The fact is NE are a waste of space in my experience. That experience dates back to 1995 when my lakes were designated as a SSSI (one of 12 chosen across the CWP).

They don’t understand ‘fisheries’ in the ecological sense and more importantly they don’t have a budget to improve the sites they designate. The aquatic SSSI’s rely on the goodwill of the owners to enhance their biodiversity - which is ridiculous. Some of the other SSSI lakes round here have been trashed by their owners and NE simply de-designate them IF they actually notice……

Mine have been managed sympathetically and are some of the best lakes (for fishing AND for biodiversity) In the entire CWP.

The above is despite otters eating nearly all my big fish (79 out of 80 sizeable carp), cormorants eating all my silver fish (roach population twice predated down to below sustainable levels ) and then beavers trashing my trees. Some of the otters were actually released by a local developer to make their stretch of the infant Thames appear more ‘cuddly’ to his visitors.

Just to make things worse NE designated the entire CWP as a SSSI a couple of years ago. It is an absolute sham and entirely pointless.
 
I lived in South Cerney and worked Cirencester back in the 80s. I fished the Water Park and especially Bradleys Wick Water Ashton Keynes etc, Carp were rare back then and then came all the stocked fisheries with it becoming a carp haven. The local tackle dealers put up alongside the lakes and the exclusive syndicates followed and soon the Park was transformed from a self sustaining habitat to a commercial money spinner.
And yet we wonder why free fish get eaten and we blame nature for its demise.
And when we need to stop and think enough is enough its too late ...and witness the destruction the Beaver has done, so lets blame the Beaver eh?
 
The whole point of the licenced release trials is to develop a better understanding of the impacts of beavers in terms of a range of factors such as impact on habitats, hydrology, and probably most importantly to examine conflicts with land use such as farming, forestry and fisheries. And based on the trails, develop appropriate strategies to deal with beavers being in the wrong place such as trapping or relocation. and in my opinion culling where necessary. If Defra want buy in from landowners then those landowners need the confidence that an exit strategy is in place.

In my opinion, if Defra/NE were genuinely serious about exploring beaver reintroduction across the wider landscape, then they would deal with landowner conflicts in a much more professional fashion. Tim's experience sounds dismal, but having been involved in the management of a number of SSSI's in the last 20 years, I can completely relate to the frustration of being on the end of NE incompetence.

I'm involved with two potential licenced release sites, both SSSI's, and it seems the bureaucracy is interminable. I genuinely don't think within the higher levels of Defra there the genuine will to licence beavers release trials. The whole process seems interminable and designed to deter applicants.

To me it seems pretty obvious that beavers won't be suitable everywhere, clearly there are potentially issues with them in landscapes with highly managed water levels, but equally it seems pretty obvious to be that in the right landscapes the potential benefits are enormous. The weight of biological evidence is beyond compelling, and I've seen it with my own eyes. The whole thing will be totally undermined if a squeamish approach is taken to beavers in the wrong landscapes - clearly you can't have beavers flooding Grade 1 arable growing high value crops. But in some areas some localised flooding of farmland can be a good thing. It may be the increased localised flooding of marginal land in headwaters may actually result in a net increase in food production as more productive land downstream is then subjected to less flooding. These things will have to considered on a catchment basis - clearly no one cap fits all.

And now that the entire CAP budget (£3.2bn) that was mostly spent on giving landowners money simply by virtue of them having land, is now being completely directed into environmentally sustainable farming and land management; the money and mechanisms are there to compensate farmers and landowners for any losses incurred. And given that trying to make a living producing food on marginal land is almost impossible within a globalised market, for many businesses, diversifying into farming water will be more profitable.

One thing is abundantly clear to most people working in land management and farming, is that the future is going to be so profoundly challenging, that business-as-usual is simply not an option, and all options need to be on the table. This includes Natural Flood Management and regenerative farming techniques, as well as hard engineered solutions.
 
I lived in South Cerney and worked Cirencester back in the 80s. I fished the Water Park and especially Bradleys Wick Water Ashton Keynes etc, Carp were rare back then and then came all the stocked fisheries with it becoming a carp haven. The local tackle dealers put up alongside the lakes and the exclusive syndicates followed and soon the Park was transformed from a self sustaining habitat to a commercial money spinner.
And yet we wonder why free fish get eaten and we blame nature for its demise.
And when we need to stop and think enough is enough its too late ...and witness the destruction the Beaver has done, so lets blame the Beaver eh?
You are SO out of touch it’s embarrassing……

Read the ‘Master Plan’ for the CWP. Then you might change your mind,

It was funded by the government and NE (English Nature in those days). The basic outcome was an acknowledgement that there was NO money to fund biodiversity - so the perceived (!) solution was more development and a ‘tax’ (eg section 106 agreements) on developers to try and maintain some sort of environmental equilibrium.

My fishery is one of the least ‘commercial’ in the entire CWP. It’s also a beautiful place. Feel free to keep slagging me off; but other fisheries will be a whole lot worse in that they trash the environment AND illegally stock their waters.

Don’t shoot the messenger…….
The whole point of the licenced release trials is to develop a better understanding of the impacts of beavers in terms of a range of factors such as impact on habitats, hydrology, and probably most importantly to examine conflicts with land use such as farming, forestry and fisheries. And based on the trails, develop appropriate strategies to deal with beavers being in the wrong place such as trapping or relocation. and in my opinion culling were necessary. If Defra want buy in from landowners then those landowners need the confidence that an exit strategy is in place.

In my opinion, if Defra/NE were genuinely serious about exploring beaver reintroduction across the wider landscape, then they would deal with landowner conflicts in a much more professional fashion. Tim's experience sounds dismal, but having been involved in the management of a number of SSSI's in the last 20 years, I can completely relate to the frustration of being on the end of NE incompetence.

I'm involved with two potential licenced release sites, both SSSI's, and it seems the bureaucracy is interminable. I genuinely don't think within the higher levels of Defra there the genuine will to licence beavers release trials. The whole process seems interminable and designed to deter applicants.

To me it seems pretty obvious that beavers won't be suitable everywhere, clearly there are potentially issues with them in landscapes with highly managed water levels, but equally it seems pretty obvious to be that in the right landscapes the potential benefits are enormous. The weight of biological evidence is beyond compelling, and I've seen it with my own eyes. The whole thing will be totally undermined if a squeamish approach is taken to beavers in the wrong landscapes - clearly you can't have beavers flooding Grade 1 arable growing high value crops. But in some areas some localised flooding of farmland can be a good thing. It may be the increased localised flooding of marginal land in headwaters may actually result in a net increase in food production as more productive land downstream is then subjected to less flooding. These things will have to considered on a catchment basis - clearly no one cap fits all.

And now that the entire CAP budget (£3.2bn) that was mostly spent on giving landowners money simply by virtue of them having land, is now being completely directed into environmentally sustainable farming and land management; the money and mechanisms are there to compensate farmers and landowners for any losses incurred. And given that trying to make a living producing food on marginal land is almost impossible within a globalised market, for many businesses, diversifying into farming water will be more profitable.

One thing is abundantly clear to most people working in land management and farming, is that the future is going to be so profoundly challenging, that business-as-usual is simply not an option, and all options need to be on the table. This includes Natural Flood Management and regenerative farming techniques, as well as hard engineered solutions.
You are right in saying that there is a ‘power struggle’ between DEFRA and EN/NE. NE were in cahoots with the Lower Mill landowner who did not have DEFRA permission for his beaver releases. The landowner said on TV that he was going to let them breed and then ‘open the gates’ ! Defra should have stepped in and removed them the next day.

There was no ‘exit strategy’ with the Lower Mill beavers. They escaped or were deliberately released and nobody gave a damn. They didn’t even know how many were on the loose.

’The future is going to be profoundly challenging’ - bang on. It’s no time to be trying to run a non-commercial fishery round here. That’s why mine is now predominantly owned by somebody else.
 
But the Beavers give a dam, and a damn good one too.
Water Park was a great unspoilt place before the Crap moved in....100lb Tench sessions, and all very affordable with SCAC , at least I was lucky to have the best of it at the time.
 
But the Beavers give a dam, and a damn good one too.
Water Park was a great unspoilt place before the Crap moved in....100lb Tench sessions, and all very affordable with SCAC , at least I was lucky to have the best of it at the time.
How I wish I had your sense of humour.
 
The point I was making regarding the Otters is that the naturally wild animals in a much wilder river behave in a much wilder manner, eating to survive and working harder at it in order to do so. By comparison the released otters are bred, fed and achieve a larger size prior to release into in this case a much smaller slower flowing river which means that they don't work as hard to feed and seemingly leave food which the wild otters don't to the same extent. To see 3/4 different otters in a very small stretch and for them to definitely be more interested in humans than wary of us is not the natural behaviour of the reclusive wild otters seen on the Wye who disappeared at the sight of people. For the record, I am not an otter hater, I enjoy seeing them in their natural habitat where natural selection will ensure that the population likely, will remain proportionate to the surroundings and its ability to support them. Already our local population have decimated the bird and vole life and are now venturing into Koi ponds local to the river to wreak havoc. Incidentally, I think it was last year that there was outcry in Loch Lomond due to otters killing young beavers, suddenly the don't hurt anything fluffy brigade weren't so keen and were calling for Otter control.
 
Chopping big trees down and dropping them in the lake. £200 a time to get them dragged out.

Chopping down most of the quality trees on the site (and many on neighbouring properties) including newly planted ones.

Undermining banks With tunnels.

Undermining the road adjacent to the lake with a tunnel.

Dropping a big tree across a public road and then I get done for ‘contributory negligence’ (according to the AT solicitor). Luckily that was averted by some life threatening tree surgery (not by me).

If I had the time I would walk to the original beaver enclosure and take some pictures for you. It looks like a bomb has gone off - nothing environmentally positive about it at all.

You can criticise me all you like. The fact is NE are a waste of space in my experience. That experience dates back to 1995 when my lakes were designated as a SSSI (one of 12 chosen across the CWP).

They don’t understand ‘fisheries’ in the ecological sense and more importantly they don’t have a budget to improve the sites they designate. The aquatic SSSI’s rely on the goodwill of the owners to enhance their biodiversity - which is ridiculous. Some of the other SSSI lakes round here have been trashed by their owners and NE simply de-designate them IF they actually notice……

Mine have been managed sympathetically and are some of the best lakes (for fishing AND for biodiversity) In the entire CWP.

The above is despite otters eating nearly all my big fish (79 out of 80 sizeable carp), cormorants eating all my silver fish (roach population twice predated down to below sustainable levels ) and then beavers trashing my trees. Some of the otters were actually released by a local developer to make their stretch of the infant Thames appear more ‘cuddly’ to his visitors.

Just to make things worse NE designated the entire CWP as a SSSI a couple of years ago. It is an absolute sham and entirely pointless.
Sounds a nightmare. SSSI's as a designation and management tool seem to be failing horribly, mirroring the overall situation on conservation in England and Wales. Too much time worrying about beavers and otters and not enough addressing catastrophic insect decline and all the rest of it.
 
The point I was making regarding the Otters is that the naturally wild animals in a much wilder river behave in a much wilder manner, eating to survive and working harder at it in order to do so. By comparison the released otters are bred, fed and achieve a larger size prior to release into in this case a much smaller slower flowing river which means that they don't work as hard to feed and seemingly leave food which the wild otters don't to the same extent. To see 3/4 different otters in a very small stretch and for them to definitely be more interested in humans than wary of us is not the natural behaviour of the reclusive wild otters seen on the Wye who disappeared at the sight of people. For the record, I am not an otter hater, I enjoy seeing them in their natural habitat where natural selection will ensure that the population likely, will remain proportionate to the surroundings and its ability to support them. Already our local population have decimated the bird and vole life and are now venturing into Koi ponds local to the river to wreak havoc. Incidentally, I think it was last year that there was outcry in Loch Lomond due to otters killing young beavers, suddenly the don't hurt anything fluffy brigade weren't so keen and were calling for Otter control.
Kevin. I can assure you the Wye Otters are as big as anywhere.

Seen them like labrador sizes.
Last one I saw 3 weeks go was happy to grab a grebe from the surface. They like pike also.

Seems the Nene suffering from the release of rescued seals into the river at the moment? Ones that would have naturally died normally....as per nature.

Otters. Also they are happy enough to swim through Ross town stretch in the day with maybe 100 people along the bankside. So not so shy.
 
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