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Bearing pins. Replacing the bearings.

I've had numerous stantons, including several 5 inchers. I find the 4 1'2 inch models ample but I sold them all on except for a 4inch model which is my favourite out of them all.
It's a number of years back that I bought a 4 inch and a 4 3/4 inch kingpin zeppelin reel. I think kingpin stopped making the 4inch models but I think they still do the 4 3/4 inchers and possibly larger still. Because they have a high set line lay they have a fast retrieve.
They arn't cheap, but are built to a high standard, this is my 4 3/4 inch reel....




The Allcocks match aerial is 4 1/2 diameter, but again because of the high set line lays it also has a fast retrieve.
Because of the way I wind back in when using a centrepin reel I have no issues using 4inch models for long trotting.
 
The bigger the diameter and more roundness of the drum itself, the more line is put on per rotation, irrespective of how you wind in.

Makes a big difference on a 40-50 yarder
I’d find a 4 inch pin painful for any long work
 
There are a few variables that make a difference either way. I’ve had 4.5” reels with deep arbours that retrieve slower than a 4” with a shallow arbour. Worst of all was the narrow Speedia before I got a 3D printed arbour insert. Took forever on the retrieve! 4” Conquest is surprisingly quick, and it seems to respond very well to batting the spool.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
The bigger the diameter and more roundness of the drum itself, the more line is put on per rotation, irrespective of how you wind in.

Makes a big difference on a 40-50 yarder
I’d find a 4 inch pin painful for any long work
Click to expand...

I know that Richard, hence me mentioning the high set line lays. If a 4 inch reel has higher set line lays than a larger diameter reel the 4inch reel will wind in more line per rotation, i'm sure that's quite obvious to anyone.
The difference in the time it takes me to wind in using a 4inch reel or a 5inch reel with high set line lays is neither here nor there and not really that noticebale in actual use. On "most occassions" i'm not to fussed if one reel retrieves faster than the other when i'm out for a relaxing trotting session 😉.
 
I’m referring to drum/arbour diameters here where the line is spooled.

The outer wall diameter also makes a difference but we are getting more complicated then.

A bigger drum of half an inch say puts around 1,8 inches of more line per rotation back on you. Fact!

Now a force like a spool bat applied to a larger diameter will apply more pushing pressure on the axis than the same bat applied to a smaller diameter thus making the bigger reel also spin faster. This is leverage (also fact)

And then you’ve got momentum
A bigger diameter is going to maintain the higher speed for longer and carry out more rotations.

The difference can be very substantial

All this is obviously subjective to two identical pins in every way apart from the diameter difference.
 
The arbour on the Fox BJ is 100mm give or take a mm or two. With a similar margin for error, the arbour of the 475 Kingpin Zeppelin is 104mm. The 4.5" (modern) Hardy Conquest has a similarly shallow arbour (to the Kingpin Zeppelin), it's about 97mm across.

For greater context, 4.5" Young's Super Lightweight, 85mm across the arbour.
4.5" Young's Atom, 85mm across the arbour.
4.5" Okuma RAW II, 84mm across the arbour.
 
Chris Jones said:
The arbour on the Fox BJ is 100mm give or take a mm or two. With a similar margin for error, the arbour of the 475 Kingpin Zeppelin is 104mm. The 4.5" (modern) Hardy Conquest has a similarly shallow arbour (to the Kingpin Zeppelin), it's about 97mm across.

For greater context, 4.5" Young's Super Lightweight, 85mm across the arbour.
4.5" Young's Atom, 85mm across the arbour.
4.5" Okuma RAW II, 84mm across the arbour.
Click to expand...
It plays a big part but not the whole picture both the arbour and total diameter will impact retrieval rates.
 
Ha, well that has gotten me scurrying for something to measure my reels with! Thankfully I remembered this...

Image 30-11-2023 at 18.24.jpg


3.3" = 83.8mm, so a 4" Conquest has an arbour only a hair less than some 4.5" reels!
 
I imagine your talking weight when you mention wall diameter, flywheel effect?

As I said, the way I retrieve line using a larger reel isn't a great deal faster than using a smaller one.

I never bat the reel.
 
Ian Woods said:
I imagine your talking weight when you mention wall diameter, flywheel effect?

As I said, the way I retrieve line using a larger reel isn't a great deal faster than using a smaller one.

I never bat the reel.
Click to expand...
your on the right lines Ian regarding my last statement “momentum”
It doesn’t necessarily have to be additional weight just weight distribution over the larger diameter. It could in theory be a lighter reel and still carry more momentum through the weight distribution over the bigger radius.

My second comment however (equally as important) is nothing to do with weight but leverage.
A bat from a longer distance is going to have more impact and a bigger force on the axis than the exact same force in the bat over a shorter distance.

The additional force applied in % combined with the additional momentum created by the weight distribution is going to make a significant difference in retrieval rates and more importantly have nothing to do with arbour diameter.

You might not notice it but it’s there. Unfortunately we can’t escape physics

I could sit down and work it out accurately if anyone is interested because after all it’s crap like this I do every day for a living 🤦‍♂️
 
I don't bother with physics Richard, i'd rather go the simple route, just use a reel and make my judgments on it's performamce.
 
Hi guys, as a follow up my new Adcock bearings turned up today:
IMG_9525.jpeg


Fitted no problem:
IMG_9537.jpeg


1. Does it make a difference? For sure.
2. Is it quieter? It’s different; the old grumbly bearings make a harsh grrrr the new a smooth shhhhhh
3. Is it smoother? Yes a lot! Very noticeable in the hand.
4. Is it worth it? Depends how you feel and how much time you’ve got on your hands when not on the bank! Replacing the bearings on an AS is not as easy as these Young’s type reels. Not difficult, but tricky. I’m a tinkerer so for me no problem.

Here’s a video I made to show (hear) the difference. New bearings on the right, old left. You can hear the rumble come and go as I lift and drop it onto the table. In the hand it’s a much more marked difference.

Anyway, all good fun.
 
Daniel Jeffery said:
Hi guys, as a follow up my new Adcock bearings turned up today:
View attachment 27437

Fitted no problem:
View attachment 27438

1. Does it make a difference? For sure.
2. Is it quieter? It’s different; the old grumbly bearings make a harsh grrrr the new a smooth shhhhhh
3. Is it smoother? Yes a lot! Very noticeable in the hand.
4. Is it worth it? Depends how you feel and how much time you’ve got on your hands when not on the bank! Replacing the bearings on an AS is not as easy as these Young’s type reels. Not difficult, but tricky. I’m a tinkerer so for me no problem.

Here’s a video I made to show (hear) the difference. New bearings on the right, old left. You can hear the rumble come and go as I lift and drop it onto the table. In the hand it’s a much more marked difference.

Anyway, all good fun.
Click to expand...
Hi Daniel,
Can you give us an update of how the bearings are going? Also can you tell us of the supplier of the bearings. I did find a supplier that did 3/16” by 1/2” ceramic bearings but they did not look like the ones you used. A search on google with the type number in your photo did not find your supplier.
I ended up buying cheap bearings, putting them in my AS was as you say tricky and I’m not happy with the rumbling result. It seems to spin OK but I don’t think the bearings are as good as the original ones.
If the ceramic bearings don’t break the bank and you report they are OK I’ll probably try some. At least the experience of putting the “none to good bearings” in was good practice, and I know now not to push the back bearing in flush, which seems to be the key to setting up the reel correctly.
 
Ralph Harris said:
Hi Daniel,
Can you give us an update of how the bearings are going? Also can you tell us of the supplier of the bearings. I did find a supplier that did 3/16” by 1/2” ceramic bearings but they did not look like the ones you used. A search on google with the type number in your photo did not find your supplier.
I ended up buying cheap bearings, putting them in my AS was as you say tricky and I’m not happy with the rumbling result. It seems to spin OK but I don’t think the bearings are as good as the original ones.
If the ceramic bearings don’t break the bank and you report they are OK I’ll probably try some. At least the experience of putting the “none to good bearings” in was good practice, and I know now not to push the back bearing in flush, which seems to be the key to setting up the reel correctly.
Click to expand...
Hi Ralph,

Yep the bearings are doing great. They are still silky smooth. I got the bearings from this supplier on Aliexpress, they’ve got a billion and one bearings on there. I think these are the ones.

Yes, the rear bearing sticks out a little from the central hub. Here’s a shot of the original rear bearing, you can see it’s not flush.
IMG_9392.jpeg


I would guess it’s probably different reel to reel. I measured it once the hub removed, 0.793 mm.
IMG_9403.jpeg


When replacing the bearings in the hub, I pushed the rear one in close to final position:
IMG_9528.jpeg


Then I made (hacked) a shim as close to 0.793 mm that I could get. As you can see quality British engineering ;)
IMG_9535.jpeg


Clamping the hub down vertically on the shim got the rear bearing in the right spot.

Another thing to be wary of is of any distortion of the spool front plate when reattaching the hub (if you did a full dismantle). See the gap below between hub & spool:
IMG_9554.jpeg


If it’s significant, the spool will likely rub against the retaining nut and won’t spin well. Easily rectified but good to look out for.

If you do a full dismantle, photo, video and label EVERYTHING. That way you end up with a Haynes Manual you follow in reverse to put everything back. I labelled parts, small position markers, screws, you name it. Being anal helps.
IMG_9400.jpeg

IMG_9780.jpeg


I ended up doing a full resto on this reel during crappy weather when I wasn’t fishing. Turned out alright.

On arrival from fleabay:
IMG_9373.jpeg


Post fettling:
IMG_9865.jpeg

IMG_1692.jpeg


Hopefully this helps!
 
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