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Barbel Stocks-What do we do next?

D

David Tainton

Senior Member
Hi All,
After reading part of the thread on Barbel stocks, and having countless conversations (all of use and informed) about why Barbel are declining, unless I have missed out on some of the threads, I would ask what we do next. There are a number of groups lobbying goverment (Predation Group), but should we not also consider re-stocking? I am involved with a club with waters on the Teme (this email is unrelated to my involvement with the club). Barbel numbers are down without doubt, but what is particularly worrying is the rarity of small Barbel ( below 2lb).
I wonder if we can afford to wait to what happens with lobbying, or we need to take the same approach of the 70's and stocking Barbel again in some of our rivers?
This would I think be part of the solution, with other tactics playing a part eg working on improving the habitat, reducing abstraction, and protecting our fish stocks (not sure what this would look like-for the record I am not sure Otters are that much of a threat-Cormorants however!). I am not a biologist/ecologist, and do not know what the practicalities/legalities or whether it would actually help, but think we may need to consider stocking for some of our rivers-welcome other peoples thoughts who know a lot more than me.

Cheers DT
 
David Tainton said:
Hi All,
After reading part of the thread on Barbel stocks, and having countless conversations (all of use and informed) about why Barbel are declining, unless I have missed out on some of the threads, I would ask what we do next. There are a number of groups lobbying goverment (Predation Group), but should we not also consider re-stocking? I am involved with a club with waters on the Teme (this email is unrelated to my involvement with the club). Barbel numbers are down without doubt, but what is particularly worrying is the rarity of small Barbel ( below 2lb).
I wonder if we can afford to wait to what happens with lobbying, or we need to take the same approach of the 70's and stocking Barbel again in some of our rivers?
This would I think be part of the solution, with other tactics playing a part eg working on improving the habitat, reducing abstraction, and protecting our fish stocks (not sure what this would look like-for the record I am not sure Otters are that much of a threat-Cormorants however!). I am not a biologist/ecologist, and do not know what the practicalities/legalities or whether it would actually help, but think we may need to consider stocking for some of our rivers-welcome other peoples thoughts who know a lot more than me.

Cheers DT
Click to expand...
As was posted on here yesterday they can be had for £4.50@100, and we could get favourable rates on BFW I am sure. :)
 
£4.50 per 100.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, so it has come to this....

The Trout Wallahs went the same way, from about 1890 when trout culture became possible and relatively cheap and seemed like the answer and even the new Magic Bullet, until very recently, when they finally and tragically belatedly realised that no amount of stocking would keep anglers paying heavily to fish rivers that were no longer suitable for trout and only held their Zoo Fish equivalent. Ditto some of us and barbel, years later. Swim wild, swim free etc.
 
Paul Boote said:
£4.50 per 100.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, so it has come to this....

The Trout Wallahs went the same way, from about 1890 when trout culture became possible and relatively cheap and seemed like the answer and even the new Magic Bullet, until very recently, when they finally and tragically belatedly realised that no amount of stocking would keep anglers paying heavily to fish rivers that were no longer suitable for trout and only held their Zoo Fish equivalent. Ditto some of us and barbel, years later. Swim wild, swim free etc.
Click to expand...

Restocking is not the way to go.

Hugo


 
Paul Boote said:
£4.50 per 100.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, so it has come to this....

The Trout Wallahs went the same way, from about 1890 when trout culture became possible and relatively cheap and seemed like the answer and even the new Magic Bullet, until very recently, when they finally and tragically belatedly realised that no amount of stocking would keep anglers paying heavily to fish rivers that were no longer suitable for trout and only held their Zoo Fish equivalent. Ditto some of us and barbel, years later. Swim wild, swim free etc.
Click to expand...

Minor correction on your quote , that is £4.50 each on a hundred break:) That is pretty reasonable I reckon if it keeps the Otter lovers in business after the wild stock has been wiped out.
 
Hi Hugo,
Can you say why it is not the way to go? Re stocking rightly or wrongly put Barbel in a number of rivers-why is it not an option now. I am not of one opinion or the other-because I do not know enough about stocking fish. If you say it is not an option-put the reasons why, then discussions up and down the country can have more fact behind them, rather than opinion.

Cheers DT
 
I'm no expert, but I would say that there's no point re-stocking anything (barbel, otters, whatever) without doing something to address the root causes of the population decline. And once you've done that then there would be no need to re-stock as the population would grow again naturally.

R.
 
£4.50 per Barbel, dont really see the problem as it was ok for the EA to stock them for free on most rivers in the first place.
It does also show that the vast majority of river systems that are showing a decline, through either predation, abstraction, old age, poor spawning areas, etc that if things dont change with either one of the examples, that to keep stocks up, that stocking could be the way to go for some rivers.
As much as people go on that Barbel are foreign invaders on the westerly flowing rivers it does provide some very good sport for all and sundry in those areas. Not that I should know as i am mostly on the Trent, which doesnt show any decline whatsoever.
 
Hi men ,

Dorset Stour Project
The first stocking of small barbel, three years ago, and the most recent stocking has been a success, in that fish of the right sizes have been spotted and caught in small numbers close to the stocking points.

Above taken from BS report , now if the Stour is deamed ok for an injection , even after glowing reports on this site from anglers who fish it , then my local otter , and crayfish riddled Ouse deserves them . If restocking aint the answer , then like Dave said above what is ?. Because those highly educated , university qualified workforce at the EA , even with all the habitat improvements , fry bays , gravel riffles etc are happy to re-stock . Fry / spawning relitive to the red signals ?. Interesting subject .

Hatter
 
On stocking Barbel I find it hard to understand the EA,s changing attitude. My club now has Barbel because the EA stocked them in the 90,s. They have done very well in the river, including spawning successfully. The amount of anglers that joined the club for the Barbel fishing saved the club from near ruin. we were giving up water after water, now we have aquired a new one. However when we asked if we could stock a few more by way of a top up. The answer was no because we could not show the river was suitable for Barbel, and there was no history of them in the river. I am now confussed. However in about 4 or 5 years time the British record should come from our river. Would that then show suitability?
Shaun of the dead
 
David Tainton said:
Hi All,
After reading part of the thread on Barbel stocks, and having countless conversations (all of use and informed) about why Barbel are declining, unless I have missed out on some of the threads, I would ask what we do next. There are a number of groups lobbying goverment (Predation Group), but should we not also consider re-stocking? I am involved with a club with waters on the Teme (this email is unrelated to my involvement with the club). Barbel numbers are down without doubt, but what is particularly worrying is the rarity of small Barbel ( below 2lb).
I wonder if we can afford to wait to what happens with lobbying, or we need to take the same approach of the 70's and stocking Barbel again in some of our rivers?
This would I think be part of the solution, with other tactics playing a part eg working on improving the habitat, reducing abstraction, and protecting our fish stocks (not sure what this would look like-for the record I am not sure Otters are that much of a threat-Cormorants however!). I am not a biologist/ecologist, and do not know what the practicalities/legalities or whether it would actually help, but think we may need to consider stocking for some of our rivers-welcome other peoples thoughts who know a lot more than me.

Cheers DT
Click to expand...

The last time I caught a barbel under 3lb on the Teme was 18/09/2009
 
Julian Griffiths said:
An interesting thread this!

Am I correct in thinking that most, if not all organisations that could help to regenerate our rivers are all strapped for cash at the moment, hence whatever course of action that is needed couldn't be implemented anyway?

Some of you guys have seen fish species populations peak and fall over the years, and could it be the case we are witnessing this in our Barbel stocks, [old ground re visited again from another thread sometime ago]

I think we all do agree to some extent that the floods of 2007 have had some bearing to what we are currently facing, maybe this event in itself was the catalyst for what we are seeing now.

It has been said, and widely accepted that the rivers took on extremely high levels of pollutants during this period, from farm land through to sewage discharge etc etc, so is it any wonder that the ecology of our Rivers have shown changes as well?

But reading that last paragraph again reminds me of the fact our Fly life even on my local Rivers, are extremely abundant, and you'd think if anything detrimental was going on, or had gone on it would of shown itself on the insect population first?

I blame it on the Women.......their contraceptives have turn our manly Barbel males into flipping Sheilas , and the lucky males are now outnumbered and can't keep up with the girlies!:D
Click to expand...


My local is the Medway, which is similar in many respects to Shaun's river. We were also told that restocking was not necessary or viable. There are a few old big fish but they are being replaced by younger natural stock. I doubt very much that the Medway will ever hold the national record again. Heaven forbid!


Otherwise, Julian, " I could not have put it better myself!"


Regards


Hugo



 
I originally fished the River Lee in Hertfordshire some 40 years back and the Barbel and Roach were abundant......today we see several large barbel regularly caught....back then the fish were not this big,if they were they obviously did not regularly get caught, there were loads of 6lb to 9lb fish and it was not unusual to take 6 or more per day..The Chubb caught back then again appeared a smaller weight than today but again were more abundant.....and the Roach stock was plentiful....The cray fish was pretty much unheard of as well but this little bugger now rules the river.....Carp have spread throughout the system and this will have had an impact on other species..
I can only say I feel that the fishing on our rivers has generally declined and its possibly too late to turn it around...how the hell can we get rid of those Crays..
while its nice to take a decent carp, the original river stocks I think have suffered because of the carp.
We need to find a predator to take on the Crays that will not be detrimental to existing fish stocks and we need to accept that every bite may not result in an epic battle with a record breaker.
 
its funny as I was going to start a thread like this myself, regarding roach and barbel, after seeing several photos and hearing stories of plentiful 2lb roach in the 60's and 70's. Now the same river 40 years on, it just is not possible to target such fish as they do not exist, Now I am sure our rivers are a sight cleaner than they used to be so this can only go back to the old arguement of predatation etc.
As someone else said, these problems need to be sorted first eg putting cormorants on the general licence.
then re stocking will work.
Just look at the disease areomonas that wiped out majority of the perch population in the 60's. Now look at the amount of perch in our river systems.
Please all sign this petition regarding cormorants, every signature will help.http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/cormorants-biodiversity-in-danger/sign.html
 
Steven Ballard said:
its funny as I was going to start a thread like this myself, regarding roach and barbel, after seeing several photos and hearing stories of plentiful 2lb roach in the 60's and 70's. Now the same river 40 years on, it just is not possible to target such fish as they do not exist, Now I am sure our rivers are a sight cleaner than they used to be so this can only go back to the old arguement of predatation etc.
As someone else said, these problems need to be sorted first eg putting cormorants on the general licence.
then re stocking will work.
Just look at the disease areomonas that wiped out majority of the perch population in the 60's. Now look at the amount of perch in our river systems.
Please all sign this petition regarding cormorants, every signature will help.http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/cormorants-biodiversity-in-danger/sign.html
Click to expand...

Steve, I think you will find that many of our rivers are too clean to maintain large shoals of big roach, you will find them on rivers of lower water quality, as they were back in the 60s and 70s
 
Steve,

You used to always find them around sewage outlets and in fairly horrible rivers, the River Blackwater holds some big shoals of cracking roach and is around 60% treated effluent with regular agricultural land wash off.......

Saying that, I know there are also some good roach these days in the upper Hants Avon and the Test so that gives a new dimension.........
 
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