• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Barbel rods for carp

There is or was a lake in Telford that has had a breeding population of catfish since the 80's. Just a few miles from the Severn.

I came out here in 2012 and one of my friends had been fishing for them in the Trent under the M18 bridge near Scunthorpe, and the Severn somewhere near Ironbridge well before that. Never had any over 40lb, but he caught them in both rivers. And he wasn't the only one.
 
Chris Guy said:
50 years ago, a 1.5lb TC rod would be classed as a carp rod.
Click to expand...
Even less than that Chris - I'm still only relatively recent back to fishing (re-started in 2016) having stopped in the late 90s and one of the main things I noticed when I came back was how heavy the hardware and end tackle had got - avon rods for perch and chub, 1.5lb+ rods for tench and bream, 2lb+ rods for barbel, 3/4lb rods for carp and pike, and hardly anyone using line less than 5/6lb (I know it's all about diameter now, but just to make the point) for anything these days unless they're using a pole or specific delicate tackle for crucians or grayling. Literally all of that was unthinkable for those respective species back in the 90s, yet here we are where stuff which isn't far off sea fishing tackle is being used for "regular" fishing. Even after five years back, I still haven't got my head around it. I appreciate the records for most of those species have gone up, but the specimens and upper size limits available to most of us now aren't that much different than equivalent sizes back in the 90s (I still don't have any 40lb+ carp available locally on a sensible day or club ticket, and there have never been any 20lb barbel within my reach, to use two obvious examples). It really boggles my mind.
 
Steve Lewis said:
Even less than that Chris - I'm still only relatively recent back to fishing (re-started in 2016) having stopped in the late 90s and one of the main things I noticed when I came back was how heavy the hardware and end tackle had got - avon rods for perch and chub, 1.5lb+ rods for tench and bream, 2lb+ rods for barbel, 3/4lb rods for carp and pike, and hardly anyone using line less than 5/6lb (I know it's all about diameter now, but just to make the point) for anything these days unless they're using a pole or specific delicate tackle for crucians or grayling. Literally all of that was unthinkable for those respective species back in the 90s, yet here we are where stuff which isn't far off sea fishing tackle is being used for "regular" fishing. Even after five years back, I still haven't got my head around it. I appreciate the records for most of those species have gone up, but the specimens and upper size limits available to most of us now aren't that much different than equivalent sizes back in the 90s (I still don't have any 40lb+ carp available locally on a sensible day or club ticket, and there have never been any 20lb barbel within my reach, to use two obvious examples). It really boggles my mind.
Click to expand...
4lb BS line is the lightest I ever go, and that would be for roach or bream. Chub usually 5-6lb, barbel I would never go less than 12lb. I had a "stop it at all costs" struggle with a barbel on the W Avon a few years ago, it had been hooked close to a fallen tree. I was using 8lb line and at full curve on the rod, with my hand clamped on the spool, the line parted with a crack like a rifle. The line was new and nothing wrong with it, I was just under gunned for the power of the fish I had hooked. I've never used less than 12lb BS for barbel since then.

As for rods, I think the slightly heavier TC is sometimes for heavy feeder work. I normally use 1lb TC for chub and 1.5-1.75 for barbel and tench.
Did you match fish before by any chance Steve?; match anglers tend to fish much lighter than average in my experience.
 
I imagine these fish are escapee's or introduced by aquarists, I think they are not able to breed in UK waters due to lower temperatures, but not sure, however with apparent warming who knows?
They might just be the new Barbel. ;)
 
There are breeding populations in Germany, Poland, Finland and Sweden. All colder than the UK that benefits in parts by the Gulf Stream warming the overall ambient temperature. The lake I mentioned in Telford also had a breeding population. Anglers were catching baby catfish.
 
Steve Lewis said:
Even less than that Chris - I'm still only relatively recent back to fishing (re-started in 2016) having stopped in the late 90s and one of the main things I noticed when I came back was how heavy the hardware and end tackle had got - avon rods for perch and chub, 1.5lb+ rods for tench and bream, 2lb+ rods for barbel, 3/4lb rods for carp and pike, and hardly anyone using line less than 5/6lb (I know it's all about diameter now, but just to make the point) for anything these days unless they're using a pole or specific delicate tackle for crucians or grayling. Literally all of that was unthinkable for those respective species back in the 90s, yet here we are where stuff which isn't far off sea fishing tackle is being used for "regular" fishing. Even after five years back, I still haven't got my head around it. I appreciate the records for most of those species have gone up, but the specimens and upper size limits available to most of us now aren't that much different than equivalent sizes back in the 90s (I still don't have any 40lb+ carp available locally on a sensible day or club ticket, and there have never been any 20lb barbel within my reach, to use two obvious examples). It really boggles my mind.
Click to expand...
A lot of it is down to more recent education.
Gone are the days when you play a fish to exhaustion or shrug your shoulders when you bring back a main line missing a rig. We’ve got this understanding now that you don’t need 6lb hook lengths to fool fish and you don’t need to play a barbel any longer than it takes you to brush your teeth.
modern barbel rods are exceptionally clever things as despite the heavy stated TC’s, they still retain lovely soft tops and beautiful progressive actions that don’t feel over gunned or risk hook pulls.
the likes of carp and pike rods have gone up in TC to cope with distance and bait sizes but even despite this increase in power, you don’t hear of hook pulls being any more frequent because rod technology has moved on with those bigger TC’s. Carp are quite a tough old fish but pike and barbel won’t stand for being played to exhaustion.
neither are particularly rig shy so it makes perfect sense to gear up to get em out quickly
 
Clive Kenyon said:
There are breeding populations in Germany, Poland, Finland and Sweden. All colder than the UK that benefits in parts by the Gulf Stream warming the overall ambient temperature. The lake I mentioned in Telford also had a breeding population. Anglers were catching baby catfish.
Click to expand...
Yep when thinking this one over, I remember a report and a picture many years ago of giant Wels that was caught in Sweden, which was at odds with the warm water requirement, but even allowing for the Gulf stream effect, its an odd one.
 
Steve Lewis said:
Even less than that Chris - I'm still only relatively recent back to fishing (re-started in 2016) having stopped in the late 90s and one of the main things I noticed when I came back was how heavy the hardware and end tackle had got - avon rods for perch and chub, 1.5lb+ rods for tench and bream, 2lb+ rods for barbel, 3/4lb rods for carp and pike, and hardly anyone using line less than 5/6lb (I know it's all about diameter now, but just to make the point) for anything these days unless they're using a pole or specific delicate tackle for crucians or grayling. Literally all of that was unthinkable for those respective species back in the 90s, yet here we are where stuff which isn't far off sea fishing tackle is being used for "regular" fishing. Even after five years back, I still haven't got my head around it. I appreciate the records for most of those species have gone up, but the specimens and upper size limits available to most of us now aren't that much different than equivalent sizes back in the 90s (I still don't have any 40lb+ carp available locally on a sensible day or club ticket, and there have never been any 20lb barbel within my reach, to use two obvious examples). It really boggles my mind.
Click to expand...
Good point I remember fishing at Bridgnorth. Going 6lb straight through, don't remember losing many neither.
 
Steve Lewis said:
Even less than that Chris - I'm still only relatively recent back to fishing (re-started in 2016) having stopped in the late 90s and one of the main things I noticed when I came back was how heavy the hardware and end tackle had got - avon rods for perch and chub, 1.5lb+ rods for tench and bream, 2lb+ rods for barbel, 3/4lb rods for carp and pike, and hardly anyone using line less than 5/6lb (I know it's all about diameter now, but just to make the point) for anything these days unless they're using a pole or specific delicate tackle for crucians or grayling. Literally all of that was unthinkable for those respective species back in the 90s, yet here we are where stuff which isn't far off sea fishing tackle is being used for "regular" fishing. Even after five years back, I still haven't got my head around it. I appreciate the records for most of those species have gone up, but the specimens and upper size limits available to most of us now aren't that much different than equivalent sizes back in the 90s (I still don't have any 40lb+ carp available locally on a sensible day or club ticket, and there have never been any 20lb barbel within my reach, to use two obvious examples). It really boggles my mind.
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you mean Steve. I packed in match fishing in about 2010 to concentrate on sea fishing (beach and rock) and it was a massive difference, using huge hooks and heavy lines to catch relatively small fish. 3/0 hooks to 30lb line was common for 12oz whiting and 2lb codling. Then, after a little try for barbel, I caught the "barbel bug" that has lasted over three years. Now, my standard setup is a wide gape 10 or 8 to a 10lb standard nylon hook length (not low diameter) and 12lb reel line. Very different to the 24 hooks and 0.06mm line I was using on canals or 20 to 1.5lb on the Trent when match fishing. I had a look at my old match gear at the weekend and couldn't believe how frail the tackle is. Nowadays I wouldn't go below 4lb line for anything! Oh yes, I still catch plenty of roach, chub and bream on my barbel gear.
Can't wait for the new season to start!
 
Ian Lovett said:
I know exactly what you mean Steve. I packed in match fishing in about 2010 to concentrate on sea fishing (beach and rock) and it was a massive difference, using huge hooks and heavy lines to catch relatively small fish. 3/0 hooks to 30lb line was common for 12oz whiting and 2lb codling. Then, after a little try for barbel, I caught the "barbel bug" that has lasted over three years. Now, my standard setup is a wide gape 10 or 8 to a 10lb standard nylon hook length (not low diameter) and 12lb reel line. Very different to the 24 hooks and 0.06mm line I was using on canals or 20 to 1.5lb on the Trent when match fishing. I had a look at my old match gear at the weekend and couldn't believe how frail the tackle is. Nowadays I wouldn't go below 4lb line for anything! Oh yes, I still catch plenty of roach, chub and bream on my barbel gear.
Can't wait for the new season to start!
Click to expand...

Agreed with all of this!

When I moved to inland France four years ago I missed my beachcasting terribly. Even though I had lived in Scotland the sea fishing was getting very poor!

My memories of coarse fishing were of lines less than 4lb bs and tiny hooks, so that's how I started here. Thank goodness I still had my heavy sea spinning and pike rods as I quickly learnt this was the starting point for barbel fishing in french rivers!

Anyway, I have some new and "gifted" rods now that are so much better. A Daiwa Powermesh B2 2.25 was perfect for this last winter, lovely action and forgiving tip. A new friend left me his Greys Prodigy barbel 1.5 tc when he was moving back to the UK - thanks Ross, perfect summer barbel rod!

Modern lines have helped, I like braid mainline. Not had the braid frayed yet as I have an 8' mono or fluoro leader. Some hard fluoro lines are abrasion resistant and I usually use 10lb BS for traces and 15 lb for leaders. Where there is a high chance of carp I use Seaguar AbrazX in 15lb for traces and the barbel are not discouraged by that at all!

Only lost one fish on the Seaguar, trace cut 6" from the hook. I thought carp but it may have been a very big silure, possibly 15lb line across those thousands of little teeth was going to fail!!!! :rolleyes:

I think carp rods should have more forgiving tips. It would make for more fun playing fish and maybe less chance of hook pulls. My old Browning telescopic pike rod is soft tipped but plenty of low down "grunt" - that has still been fun with heavy water barbel and has tamed several river carp now.👍
 
For me, after stopping the first run the biggest part of the battle with carp is usually just out of netting range when you have the prolonged Ring-a-Ring-a-Rosies battle. For that I prefer a softer action rod such as a pike dead bait rod or barbel quiver rod if I'm using a modern rod. For close in fishing these days I generally use a cane 1.5lb tc rod and centrepin.

I don't like generalising by labelling rods as 'Barbel', 'Carp' or 'Pike'as the actions of many rods designated for a particular species differ from one model to another, and a pike dead bait rod isn't much different in action to a carp stalking rod. It will have more guides which could be a bonus.
 
Neil Smart said:
Yep when thinking this one over, I remember a report and a picture many years ago of giant Wels that was caught in Sweden, which was at odds with the warm water requirement, but even allowing for the Gulf stream effect, its an odd one.
Click to expand...
There isn't a "warm water requirement". They are native to Central and Eastern Europe which is colder on average to many countries where they have been latterly introduced, including the UK.
 
According to the CCG to spawn a constant water temperature of 20c is needed. Feasible then perhaps but rather unlikely in our rivers. Have you any evidence or knowledge of breeding cats in UK rivers? All very interesting, apologies for straying from the theme on this thread.
 
Steven Hodges said:

Wels Catfish | CCG

www.catfishconservationgroup.co.uk www.catfishconservationgroup.co.uk
Click to expand...
Thanks Steven, also note cats have a positive effect on fisheries, mop up sick fish, and munch on signal crayfish. Thinking about sightings, I did get a glimpse of a cat like fish break water at Birds Meadow Tewkesbury, and hooking an unstoppable force at Nafford.
Most of us have that though at some time.
So back on track, forget Carp or Barbel rods we need a new breed of rods, obviously.
 
Neil Smart said:
Thanks Steven, also note cats have a positive effect on fisheries, mop up sick fish, and munch on signal crayfish. Thinking about sightings, I did get a glimpse of a cat like fish break water at Birds Meadow Tewkesbury, and hooking an unstoppable force at Nafford.
Most of us have that though at some time.
So back on track, forget Carp or Barbel rods we need a new breed of rods, obviously.
Click to expand...
I have heard of cats on the Avon above Nafford weir and there was a big cat caught a couple of years ago above Birds meadow on the Mythe stretch.
 
Neil Smart said:
Thanks Steven, also note cats have a positive effect on fisheries, mop up sick fish, and munch on signal crayfish. Thinking about sightings, I did get a glimpse of a cat like fish break water at Birds Meadow Tewkesbury, and hooking an unstoppable force at Nafford.
Most of us have that though at some time.
So back on track, forget Carp or Barbel rods we need a new breed of rods, obviously.
Click to expand...
The CCG are not exactly impartial and would say that catfish had a positive effect on fisheries. I would love to see the evidence, because the majority of anglers who express their opinions over here say quite the reverse. And it seems that it is the barbel that have suffered the most.
 
Some clowns put some catfish in one of our club waters which used to be a well balanced mixed fishery with a good head of decent sized Pike and some carp to low 30s and clear water. One has been caught at over 50lb and removed, other numbers unknown but rumoured to have been 5. I'd guess it's 10-15 acres with some deep water.
First thing noticeable was the Pike disappeared, then the Bream numbers increased to infestation levels and have made Carp fishing very difficult. Then due to all the Bream shit, the water is now coloured all the time and algae blooms are not uncommon and the water has to be closed sometimes.
Carp numbers fell too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top