Baitrunners, quiver tips and hooking fish?

[Stephen Bond]

Hi one and all,
Being the time is approaching soon, I have been giving some thoughts to my tactics. As last season I was doing late night sessions (and even earlier morning finishes) I found that before long in the wee hours I would be have a quick snooze, especially as bites don't come fast a furious on the Thames. Thus I would normally have the baitrunner on.

Also, I would set one rod up cast it out and then set up the second. A couple I times I heard a quick spin of the spool as I was not attending the rod. I assume they were likely takes but the bait was ejected before I could attend? Thus I changed to only cast out when both rods were set up ready to go. I generally use the quivertip top and a low resistance running rig.

I am wondering if I might be missing something here and actually hook more fish with the baitrunner off and using the standard top? My thinking is that progressive give in the quiver and the lightly set baitrunner allow the fish to escape where as the stiffer top and lack of line given out from the reel would likely self hook the fish? This might be even more effective if I change from mono to braid?

Maybe I should just fish a bolt rig with alarms on max, retire to the bivvy for a snooze and wait for the signal to reel in the next barbel (or likely bream on the Thames)?!

Thanks in advance.

Stephen

 

[Steven Brown]

Just tighten your baitrunner mate but make sure it's not to tight or you'll lose the rod.

 

[Anthony Pearson]

If you're snoozing, then bolt-rig, baitrunner and alarms is the unsporting but effective way to go (particularly where big chub are concerned .......so I'm led to believe). Having woken up to a missing rod having dozed off unexpectedly during daylight hours, and then having been fortunateenough to be able to lead-around and drag it back to the surface....still attached to an eight-pound barbel, I would thoroughly recommend the method as a way of avoiding the scenario!

 

[Steve Sorrell]

If i feel a snooze coming on then i revert to touch ledgering.
Definately the best wake up call, or should that be wake up pull!??

 

[Steve Williams]

Also, I would set one rod up cast it out and then set up the second. A couple I times I heard a quick spin of the spool as I was not attending the rod. I assume they were likely takes but the bait was ejected before I could attend?

Sounds like Chub to me, rather than Barbel.

I'm guessing you are hair rigging pellet/boilies?

I've generally found that once a Barbel sucks a bait into its mouth it is hooked.
I've never found them to have the ability to 'eject' rigs.

Other then that, you could have a problem with your hooking arrangement and you are only just nicking the fish and the hook is pulling out....

Steve

 

[Stephen Bond]

Yes Steve, hair rigged pellets or boilies with the bait pretty close to the hook. Agreed, likely chub or quite possibly bream on the Thames.

If i feel a snooze coming on then i revert to touch ledgering.
Definately the best wake up call, or should that be wake up pull!??

Tried that at times. Not quite so easy with two rods though! Plus you never really know quite when the snoozing is about to start

Stephen

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Hi one and all,
Being the time is approaching soon, I have been giving some thoughts to my tactics. As last season I was doing late night sessions (and even earlier morning finishes) I found that before long in the wee hours I would be have a quick snooze, especially as bites don't come fast a furious on the Thames. Thus I would normally have the baitrunner on.

Also, I would set one rod up cast it out and then set up the second. A couple I times I heard a quick spin of the spool as I was not attending the rod. I assume they were likely takes but the bait was ejected before I could attend? Thus I changed to only cast out when both rods were set up ready to go. I generally use the quivertip top and a low resistance running rig.

I am wondering if I might be missing something here and actually hook more fish with the baitrunner off and using the standard top? My thinking is that progressive give in the quiver and the lightly set baitrunner allow the fish to escape where as the stiffer top and lack of line given out from the reel would likely self hook the fish? This might be even more effective if I change from mono to braid?

Maybe I should just fish a bolt rig with alarms on max, retire to the bivvy for a snooze and wait for the signal to reel in the next barbel (or likely bream on the Thames)?!

Thanks in advance.


Stephen

Could be a line bite Stephen ?

 

[Neil Smart]

I had the same problem on the Wye a few years back, it was chub mouthing the hair rigged pellets, I was striking into thin air, so I was advised by the local anglers to present a scored pellet on a bait band, and wait for a 'churner' on the bait runner, it worked, and always resulted in a Barbel.

I appreciate most /all other rivers don't have the same stocking levels as the Wye, but might be worth a go.

 

[Stephen Bond]

Indeed it could be Mike. It could also be something floating downstream and catching on the line momentarily.

I suspected it was fish in the couple of instances I remember as the first time it happened I was using a home made boilie which was quite soft and when I reeled in the boilie was gone. In the second case I caught a bream shortly after so I then assumed there were fish in the swim and the pull was a take from the same. However, could have been a liner, especially with the depth of bream!

Stephen

 

[Stephen Bond]

I used to use bands Neil but I found that the fish would get the pellet quite often without getting caught. Scoring could help but it can also weaken the pellet which can split in half. Maybe super glue is a good idea or else use a lasso?

I guess the self hooking is more likely with the hook close to or touching the bait? Maybe short hairs are just as effective?

Stephen

 

[Steve Williams]

The bream I catch struggle to move themselves never mind shift a lead or pull line off a bait runner....
Certainly sounds like chub bites to me.
I'd tighten the bait runner a little and wait for a 'proper' pull round....

Steve

 

[Stephen Bond]

The bream I catch struggle to move themselves never mind shift a lead or pull line off a bait runner....
Certainly sounds like chub bites to me.
I'd tighten the bait runner a little and wait for a 'proper' pull round....

Steve

These Thames bream fight like tigers on 15lb mono

Maybe that's the best compromise, use the baitrunner tightened up somewhat?
Hook the fish but not loose the rod during a nap?
Although I find them cumbersome, maybe butt grip rests are a good idea after all?

Otherwise I should just invest in in some 3.5lb test carp rods, add snag ears, buzzers on max, retire to the heated bivvy for a proper sleep and wait to reel in the next double?

Stephen

 

[Neil Smart]

I used to use bands Neil but I found that the fish would get the pellet quite often without getting caught. Scoring could help but it can also weaken the pellet which can split in half. Maybe super glue is a good idea or else use a lasso?

I guess the self hooking is more likely with the hook close to or touching the bait? Maybe short hairs are just as effective?

Stephen

Didn't find weakening was a problem on a 15mm Dynamite Stephen, yes you could lasso, and use a short hair I suppose, but give my method it a try, I was amazed at the difference it made.
Sometimes there is no logic as to why something so simple works

 

[Stephen Bond]

Didn't find weakening was a problem on a 15mm Dynamite Stephen, yes you could lasso, and use a short hair I suppose, but give my method it a try, I was amazed at the difference it made.
Sometimes there is no logic as to why something so simple works

Understood! Yes, the Dynamite Baits halibut pellets are pretty rock hard. I wonder what then do to them?

Thanks for the tip. Might use those bands I have after all!

Stephen

 

[Graham Elliott]

Hi Stephen.
I'm going to be fishing the OW bits this season a fair bit so if you are in that club probably see you around.

You have raised a number of interesting queries re Thames/bait/line etc of late so I will try and give some advice, it might help.


1/ Bream. You will almost certainly experience a slight swaying of the rod tip if you have bream in the swim. They will finally manage to hook themselves, and as you know a fair number of double figure ones about amongst the average 4 -7lbers. The bites can be savage, but applied pressure will bring them to the top to wallow! Unless its a barbel...

2/ Line. Unless you are fishing snaggy weirpools, or mussel beds, 15lb powerpro will land everything you hook. I have no problem using it as main line and as hook link. Probably lost 2 fish in the last 10 years. I have not seen the super slick, so that sounds good.

the advice to lighten the clutch setting is good, and with larger fish I routinely slacken of a bit as the fish gets near to the bank.

cont.

As a standard feeder set up I would recommend that on the mainline you try the original enterprise snagfree (ANDY has them in the shop) with a diamond pattern link swivel on the base to attach to your feeder. The swivel is most important. DONT use a wire barrel twist one or those horrible ones with an eye to put the clip in. They are both tangle magic.


You will find that if you then thread a tulip bead on, the ones with the pointed end, towards the rod, then tie on another diamond swivel, pulling the rubber bead over it it that the snagfree link (and feeder ) will sit nicely on the tulip bead, kicking it out, meaning tanglefree casting.

I then tie on the hook link. Don't ever use a shortish mono or fluro hooklink with braid mainline. If you must use them, make sure you use at least 2 foot. I tend to use nine inches of powerpro.

3/ Bait. With elips superglued onto the hair, you should have no problem with losing bait.
But better not to use the thicker gel, it's nowhere as good as standard SG.

If using drilled pellets, dab a spot of SG under the hair, this prevents a lot of fishing without a bait on!


I tend to fish the pellet just under the hook bend.


If I was fishing a weirpool, that I know to be rocky etc, I would change to GT80, its super tough. But I would still use PP hooklink. (Thats how I fish the Wye / Trent and rocky Severn sections.

4/ I never use the baitrunner except for when I pour a drink / have a pee. Then again I concentrate fully all the time, or reel in.........however, this year I plan more Thames longer sessions, so probably will use it in the evening, in conjunction with butt grips.



Hope some of this info will help.

ATB

Graham

 

[Stephen Bond]

Hi Graham,
Thanks for the post. I have picked up the lock & weir permit this year so I am going to be trying for some daytime fish. After losing a fish two years ago in an unseen weir pool snag I immediately stepped up my mono from 12 to 15lb.

I was largely on the lower last year and it seems there are numerous snags down there. By comparison, I have rarely found snags in the middle Thames or even the middle Seven. I curious if strong braid will allow me to pull out of the sunken branches and the like rather than breaking off as with the 12lb mono?

I agree about the bream bites. They clearly love the halibut pellets and will bite accordingly! They usually give a few strong kicks after being hooked but the feel is different to the "weight" one feels with a barbel attached, even quite small barbel. I am sure this is to do with the barbel shape which they use in conjunction with the current to glue them down in the flow. Carp just seem to storm off, running up and down the river.

15lb Power Pro is certainly fine which certainly has its advantages. I'd be happy enough with it on most swims on the middle. Indeed, I used to fish 6lb mono along the ledge as was quite normal back in the 80s and had no problem landing barbel on it.

I'd wondered about the Enterprise Snag Safe Lead Clips before. Maybe I should give them a try. I guess you are using the new style ones? Alternatively I had toyed with the idea of a "rotten bottom" rig with a short length of 8lb mono or
so to attach the lead/feeder. That is another thing I used to use in my youth now I come to think of it, a running setup with the lead on a short link of weaker mono.

I haven't had too much trouble with tangling save with using the open feeder and if the hair is too long. In such cases the hook bait can become tangled around or in the feeder itself. As I mentioned before, if the lead is rolling around that can makes thing worse. Buried hooks are less problematic that hair rigs it seems.

I use an anti tangle sleeve on the lower end of the swivel and coated braid which helps to keep things tangle free and provides abrasion resistance when the fish go for the snags. I was curious to try a combi rig with stiff flouro at some point to help in similar fashion but its might be easier to stick with the coated braid and avoid the extra knot.

I have found most of the pre drilled pellets have too large a hole. I prefer to drill them myself using a fine drill bit. It keeps the stop tight in the hole. I don't use the peg or dumbbell stops as I feel the one which sit in the hole are more secure. Super glue must surely help! I just came back from the tackle shop and the Dynamite Baits marine halibut hookers now come in 22mm which might be useful. A little on the pricey side though!

Anyhow, tight lines for the coming season, hopefully with fish, not snags!

Stephen