Andrew Richardson
Senior Member & Supporter
as the title says! I really seem to be struggling on the trent in the winter floods. Ive tried all sorts of swims and baits but to no avail so any advice would be most appreciated.
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any help on winter flood fishing on river trent?
- Thread starter Andrew Richardson
- Start date
Jon Frisby
Senior Member & Supporter
I'm not so worried about floods at the moment more about ice skating and keeping warm. However ref winter floods on the Trent... after some rain ie 2 or 3 foot of extra on its best to go around 3 or 4 days after. Ie it's reached its peak, levelled and is slowly fining off. This way most of the rubbish has gone through. Swim selection that's the hard bit. Ideally deeper than most as barbel like a depression or slower like the inside of a bend and not weirpool. On weirpool it will be a maelstrom they don't like this and will go to the nearest calm water downstream. Swim selection is the most important factor imo.. I could go on...
Richard Barrett
Senior Member
Andrew.
Only experience I have apart from the Trent is the Wensum. Anglers still want to fish too far out, when all the fish are right in the margins, often under your own feet. Try a lighter lead of maybe and ounce, and fish where it stops the barbel and chub will follow a trail upstream so ground bait at your feet/rodtip. Worth a try?
Big piece of meat, cheese paste on a size four. Size of a matchbox.
Richard.
Only experience I have apart from the Trent is the Wensum. Anglers still want to fish too far out, when all the fish are right in the margins, often under your own feet. Try a lighter lead of maybe and ounce, and fish where it stops the barbel and chub will follow a trail upstream so ground bait at your feet/rodtip. Worth a try?
Big piece of meat, cheese paste on a size four. Size of a matchbox.
Richard.
Mark Swaby
Senior Member
Is anyone else catching Andrew?,if they are then you need to look at what you are doing,if not or just odd fish they are suffering just like you and there is little you can do.You will just have to wait till it gets warmer.
Andrew Richardson
Senior Member & Supporter
its the upper trent so its not very prolific as it is, and you hardly ever see anyone fishing so not sure if anyone else is catching. i:mad just cant seem to find them on here. on smaller rivers like the dove and don i always seem to find them. ive been fishing the upper trent for 4 years now and i dont think ive had 1 fish when its in flood
Paul Hayes
Senior Member
Andrew I've been fishing the Upper Trent for many years, they are certainly difficult to locate. Swim finding is not a problem, plenty of slacks eddies to at. What you have to remember is that on the upper river we may not have the quantity of fish but the quality is there. It's perseverance my friend.
Ian Murfin
Senior Member
Trent barber wrote this post a while back on the stages of a flood it might be worth a read
The link the full thread is here
http://barbelfishingworld.yuku.com/reply/99487/Big-barbel-on-big-rivers#reply-99487
This was Lee's post
Dear Tom,
I'm enthused that other big river barbel anglers might recognise certain patterns I describe. I steadfastly believe a treasure chest of knowledge lies in wait within deep pools on all big rivers.
Tom said;
"I'm also interested to see that you don't subscribe to the theory that the barbel will always be found out in the main current actively searching even in the biggest floods."
The above paragraph might be guilty of becoming a generalisation Tom if not explained further because flood fishing and especially, "specific periods" within any flood holds the key.
When a river rises to the point of becoming termed a river "In Flood", it has already gone through certain development stages in order to reach a point of possibly bursting its banks. It is within these build-up stages that barbel behave or react differently depending on the condition of the river itself. Looking closer at this;
Stage 1.
I believe that river fish (not just barbel) have an in-built forecasting mechanism which tells them hard times are on the way. As such, they begin to feed more than usual as stormy weather approaches. The degree of feeding intensity revolves around their detection of how bad things will become.
For example, flash flooding with a prospect of prolonged flooding there after will enduce heavy feeding. The fish will feed simply in preparation for hard times to come when they must abstain from feeding due to the conditions. As I say, this feeding may begin several days before a storm arives. It is therefore prudent to keep a constant eye of the weather forecast. I scan the forecasts and also have my own equipment for weather watching. Interestingly, these pre-flood feeding periods throw up a high proportion of big barbel. Could this be a pointer towards big barbel behaviour when the flood period is at its height?
Stage 2.
The river has risen so much that its flow increases rapidly and begins to get coloured. It is still within its banks though and little debris is coming down. Barbel will still be getting caught but catches will noticably start to tail off.
Stage 3.
The river is bank high or broke its banks in places. The swollen river is full of floating/sinking debris of all kinds. Its current is also very powerful. The rivers flow is rushing towards the sea whilst up in its higher reaches and catchment area water continues to spew into the main body. Barbel STOP feeding in these stages although odd fish can sometimes be seen splashing out.
Stage 4.
A serious big river barbeler will constantly be on the lookout for stage 4 ariving within the overal flood period. The more the river rises and the longer the period lasts, the more chance the big river barbeler has of the river reaching its "Flood's Peak".
This is the climax to the rivers flooded flow as the whole river becomes full from its catchment area right down to the lower tidal reaches. The rivers flow then slows dramatically. The debris is still in the river but has slowed on its seaward path to a snails pace. Barbel now begin to feed in earnest.
I call this period "Blitz Barbeling" because they ressemble London occupants appearing from their shelters in WW2 during lulls in the bombing. In stage 4, many barbel can be caught of all sizes. Blitz barbeling is without doubt the most exciting and prolific in terms of the numbers of barbel coming over the net in this period. The major drawback with "Blitzing" is that the period is short lived in all but the rarest of circumstances. It is vital then that the intrepid big river barbeler keeps a very close eye on the flooded river should Flood's Peak draw close.
Stage 5.
After Flood's Peak, the river goes into "Run Off". Like the title implies the river starts up in pace again as it runs off into the sea. Once again the rivers current increases rapidly and the debris comes full force down the river once again. Added to this, more debris falls into the flow as the river subsides sucking down loose debsis along its banks. Again, barbel abstain from feeding for a while. The big river barbel angler now waits for the next stage to arive.
Stage 6.
Only constant vigilance will proclaim that stage 6 has arived. Its the optimum period when the river finally returns to its banks. The river might well look no different to the untrained eye aside perhaps from the slight drop in level. Its still coloured and branches and the like are still coming down river.
But look closer. Not with the eye, but with rod and line cast out in her margins. Watch the rod tip. If it doesn't move aside from the trembles of the rivers current briskly parting over the line, then stage 6 has arived. Why? Because all the debris has stopped coming down as the river has returned back to within her banks. Again, the barbel will feed fairly strongly and good fishing can be had for perhaps another 24 hours until the river and her bloated fat as butter barbel return to normal once again.
Interestingly, I find that the stage 6 period will commonly produce the barbel behaviour JW refer's to. That being barbel being very close in at the bottom of the bank at the point it meets the river bed. I have also found this end of flood period to be more endemic with barbel feeding on earth worms. My personal studies although far from complete seem to indicate earthworm surface activity to be more prolific at the end of the flood period.
I believe that big river barbel populations go through various changes within their life cycle. And that these changes are mirrored exactly by barbel generations past and present. The big river inflicts these changes upon the barbel and the barbel in return have evolved their own system to deal with them.
In good times, when prolific natural food sources are available, barbel thrive and become very gregarious in behaviour. These gregarious populations also tend to congregate and come together. They form themselves into super shoals. I have experienced this phenomenon both on the tidal and middle river reaches. But the natural environment that these fish have to live within will always dictate how their lives will be led.
Barbel "pools" are I believe Tom, the exact same pools one would expect to find Salmon in. Indeed, some very famous Trent salmon pools are frequented by todays barbel shoals. A traditional pool might be 3-4 hundred yards long so long as its a good average deapth. "Crow Trees" is a fine example of this on the Trent.
Now I will leave you all with a ponderence. Bream? Lots of them in the Trent yes? Lots in the Thames yes? Severn? Wye?
Oh how we all as faithful barbel anglers curse their attention.
Its Autumn and Winter is approaching fast. The big barbel have almost gone from their favourite Summer haunts. Try as you might though, you can't seem to find them. Interestingly, not many bream getting caught now either. Strange.
I wonder if there is a connection to bream in relation to finding barbel during the winter on big rivers???................
Regards,
Lee.
The link the full thread is here
http://barbelfishingworld.yuku.com/reply/99487/Big-barbel-on-big-rivers#reply-99487
This was Lee's post
Dear Tom,
I'm enthused that other big river barbel anglers might recognise certain patterns I describe. I steadfastly believe a treasure chest of knowledge lies in wait within deep pools on all big rivers.
Tom said;
"I'm also interested to see that you don't subscribe to the theory that the barbel will always be found out in the main current actively searching even in the biggest floods."
The above paragraph might be guilty of becoming a generalisation Tom if not explained further because flood fishing and especially, "specific periods" within any flood holds the key.
When a river rises to the point of becoming termed a river "In Flood", it has already gone through certain development stages in order to reach a point of possibly bursting its banks. It is within these build-up stages that barbel behave or react differently depending on the condition of the river itself. Looking closer at this;
Stage 1.
I believe that river fish (not just barbel) have an in-built forecasting mechanism which tells them hard times are on the way. As such, they begin to feed more than usual as stormy weather approaches. The degree of feeding intensity revolves around their detection of how bad things will become.
For example, flash flooding with a prospect of prolonged flooding there after will enduce heavy feeding. The fish will feed simply in preparation for hard times to come when they must abstain from feeding due to the conditions. As I say, this feeding may begin several days before a storm arives. It is therefore prudent to keep a constant eye of the weather forecast. I scan the forecasts and also have my own equipment for weather watching. Interestingly, these pre-flood feeding periods throw up a high proportion of big barbel. Could this be a pointer towards big barbel behaviour when the flood period is at its height?
Stage 2.
The river has risen so much that its flow increases rapidly and begins to get coloured. It is still within its banks though and little debris is coming down. Barbel will still be getting caught but catches will noticably start to tail off.
Stage 3.
The river is bank high or broke its banks in places. The swollen river is full of floating/sinking debris of all kinds. Its current is also very powerful. The rivers flow is rushing towards the sea whilst up in its higher reaches and catchment area water continues to spew into the main body. Barbel STOP feeding in these stages although odd fish can sometimes be seen splashing out.
Stage 4.
A serious big river barbeler will constantly be on the lookout for stage 4 ariving within the overal flood period. The more the river rises and the longer the period lasts, the more chance the big river barbeler has of the river reaching its "Flood's Peak".
This is the climax to the rivers flooded flow as the whole river becomes full from its catchment area right down to the lower tidal reaches. The rivers flow then slows dramatically. The debris is still in the river but has slowed on its seaward path to a snails pace. Barbel now begin to feed in earnest.
I call this period "Blitz Barbeling" because they ressemble London occupants appearing from their shelters in WW2 during lulls in the bombing. In stage 4, many barbel can be caught of all sizes. Blitz barbeling is without doubt the most exciting and prolific in terms of the numbers of barbel coming over the net in this period. The major drawback with "Blitzing" is that the period is short lived in all but the rarest of circumstances. It is vital then that the intrepid big river barbeler keeps a very close eye on the flooded river should Flood's Peak draw close.
Stage 5.
After Flood's Peak, the river goes into "Run Off". Like the title implies the river starts up in pace again as it runs off into the sea. Once again the rivers current increases rapidly and the debris comes full force down the river once again. Added to this, more debris falls into the flow as the river subsides sucking down loose debsis along its banks. Again, barbel abstain from feeding for a while. The big river barbel angler now waits for the next stage to arive.
Stage 6.
Only constant vigilance will proclaim that stage 6 has arived. Its the optimum period when the river finally returns to its banks. The river might well look no different to the untrained eye aside perhaps from the slight drop in level. Its still coloured and branches and the like are still coming down river.
But look closer. Not with the eye, but with rod and line cast out in her margins. Watch the rod tip. If it doesn't move aside from the trembles of the rivers current briskly parting over the line, then stage 6 has arived. Why? Because all the debris has stopped coming down as the river has returned back to within her banks. Again, the barbel will feed fairly strongly and good fishing can be had for perhaps another 24 hours until the river and her bloated fat as butter barbel return to normal once again.
Interestingly, I find that the stage 6 period will commonly produce the barbel behaviour JW refer's to. That being barbel being very close in at the bottom of the bank at the point it meets the river bed. I have also found this end of flood period to be more endemic with barbel feeding on earth worms. My personal studies although far from complete seem to indicate earthworm surface activity to be more prolific at the end of the flood period.
I believe that big river barbel populations go through various changes within their life cycle. And that these changes are mirrored exactly by barbel generations past and present. The big river inflicts these changes upon the barbel and the barbel in return have evolved their own system to deal with them.
In good times, when prolific natural food sources are available, barbel thrive and become very gregarious in behaviour. These gregarious populations also tend to congregate and come together. They form themselves into super shoals. I have experienced this phenomenon both on the tidal and middle river reaches. But the natural environment that these fish have to live within will always dictate how their lives will be led.
Barbel "pools" are I believe Tom, the exact same pools one would expect to find Salmon in. Indeed, some very famous Trent salmon pools are frequented by todays barbel shoals. A traditional pool might be 3-4 hundred yards long so long as its a good average deapth. "Crow Trees" is a fine example of this on the Trent.
Now I will leave you all with a ponderence. Bream? Lots of them in the Trent yes? Lots in the Thames yes? Severn? Wye?
Oh how we all as faithful barbel anglers curse their attention.
Its Autumn and Winter is approaching fast. The big barbel have almost gone from their favourite Summer haunts. Try as you might though, you can't seem to find them. Interestingly, not many bream getting caught now either. Strange.
I wonder if there is a connection to bream in relation to finding barbel during the winter on big rivers???................
Regards,
Lee.
Andrew Richardson
Senior Member & Supporter
cheers for that ian some things to think about there. your not wrong there paul
Richard Barrett
Senior Member
Andrew just today I took a big chub in the margins on cheese paste. Give it a try fish under your rod top.