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Another one bites the dust

The real sad thing is that the otter just takes a few bites from the soft areas and leaves the majority of the carcass to rot!
Having seen the pic of the dead ivel biggy, it really is enough to make you cry. I've personally found a 30lb+ pike in the past that had been otterred ( pic in Eddie Turners book a few years ago) and a local club lost its biggest (46 lb) carp from its club water in the past. The furry things are more than a menace. If another predator was going around slashing the throats of sheep, pets and cattle, something would be done.
Sadly, anglers are right at the bottom of the political chain.
 
I think fishing for Barbel has changed and will continue to change for all sorts of reasons..
Predation by Otters is the biggest threat, as whole year classes of Barbel are being destroyed and will probably never be replaced..
Even when people keep saying they are seeing young Barbel now on some rivers, they seem to think there is hope, when in reality there is none as these young Barbel will just end up on the Otters dinner plate..
The cycle of destruction will just keep carrying on..
Barbel fishing on some rivers is pretty much finished with no hope of any return to how things once were and ive no doubt that many more will follow over the coming years..
Barbel fishing will become a thing of the past in the not so far future..
 
Craig
It doesn't just stop at barbel, there are many other species open to predation which include coots, moorhens and mallards as I've witnessed on the Stour. Fishing as we know it is seriously under threat.

Mike
 
Saw Countryfile lastnight, some woman in Derbyshire breeding giant otters, 2 metres long these things, god forbid if they ever get loose.
 
Maybe I'm a cynic Darren but they will get loose with a little help. After all beavers didn't just arrive on the wind. The 'Do Gooders' are wrecking our countryside. Only yesterday a guy researching Voles in the Colne Valley excitedly told me he had discovered otter spraint and wasn't that good news. The lakes in the Colne Valley hold some of the prized fish in the land and not only carp.
I fear for our future

Mike
 
Giants and some other non native fish munchers. FFS.
I doubt we are seeing a terminal decline in Barbel angling, after all Barbel and Otters both survived alongside each other for thousands if not millions of years, we have been very fortunate to have enjoyed a period of time when Barbel or any other species have been able to thrive without Otters predating on them, because the Otters were hunted to extinction, I believe, in the 19th century.
I'd rather they weren't around now but I'm very glad I've been able to enjoy the Otter free period, too bad my favorite river was destroyed to entertain a few canoeists and narrowboaters.
There is a lot of artificiality in our fishing, we just have to make the best of our opportunities as they arrive, my now favorite Barbel river is 90%+ sewage outfall! A lot of rivers never had a Barbel population at all and still wouldn't if it wasn't for stocking programmes, some fish populations have been destroyed by Barbel stocking in rivers that never held them naturally. Notably the run of HUGE spring Salmon that used to populate the Hants. Avon.
Eventually, and it may not be in my lifetime, the Otters will dwindle to a more natural population level, as will the Barbel and all the other fish in our rivers.
Re establishing a more normal Eel population would go a long way towards reducing the predation, by Otters, on our fish, Barbel included.
 
Funny enough, I agree with what Mikes fears are, and also where Paul is coming from.
Otters died out because of pesticides from Farms and could no longer breed..
The Environment was a different place then, compared to today..
I guess I am selfish because I hate seeing decades of healthy fish stocks and prized specimens disappearing in just a few years..
Do I blame Otters? absolutely I do, I have seen with my own eyes what damage they have done in such a short time..
All said and done I have seen Otters up close and couldent help but watch in amazement tinged with a sadness that they have taken so many prized fish..
I don't think we are even close to reaching a balance, if one is ever reached at all, a lot more fish will disappear before that ever happens, and that's a fact..

But we all just have get on with it because that's the only real option we all have..
 
The big factor here is Eels, when Otters were abundant before they had plenty of their favourite grub to munch.

What we are witnessing now has not been witnessed ever before, otters can not be controlled as in the past, and now have free reign to deplete fish stocks in this country with absolutely nothing to stop them, they will breed and breed until you won't go two days on the bank without seeing one.

We are at the beginning of a new phase for our passtime, and there is only one way it goes.
 
Paul Collins said:
Giants and some other non native fish munchers. FFS.
I doubt we are seeing a terminal decline in Barbel angling, after all Barbel and Otters both survived alongside each other for thousands if not millions of years, we have been very fortunate to have enjoyed a period of time when Barbel or any other species have been able to thrive without Otters predating on them, because the Otters were hunted to extinction, I believe, in the 19th century.
I'd rather they weren't around now but I'm very glad I've been able to enjoy the Otter free period, too bad my favorite river was destroyed to entertain a few canoeists and narrowboaters.
There is a lot of artificiality in our fishing, we just have to make the best of our opportunities as they arrive, my now favorite Barbel river is 90%+ sewage outfall! A lot of rivers never had a Barbel population at all and still wouldn't if it wasn't for stocking programmes, some fish populations have been destroyed by Barbel stocking in rivers that never held them naturally. Notably the run of HUGE spring Salmon that used to populate the Hants. Avon.
Eventually, and it may not be in my lifetime, the Otters will dwindle to a more natural population level, as will the Barbel and all the other fish in our rivers.
Re establishing a more normal Eel population would go a long way towards reducing the predation, by Otters, on our fish, Barbel included.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of that Paul - some very good points.

One very minor point of pedantry though, Otters never became extinct in the UK or indeed in England. The presence of organochlorine pesticides in our rivers caused a dramatic population decline, resulting in absence in southern and central England during, but small populations always remained along the welsh borders, the south-west and northern England.
 
Otters came close to extinction in the UK in the 1970's when , incidentally, they were still being hunted [ the 11 otter hunts in existence in the 60's said they killed by their own records 1,065 otters between 1958-1963] . As Otters are now being seen by some as the downfall of angling ; when Otters were virtually extinct in the 1970's were fish then thriving as a result of there been so few Otters about ? My recollection of fishing in the 1970's is that it was a hardly a golden age of angling , barbel fishing was seen as very much a fringe activity . Might be a simple argument but few otters does not necessarily mean that fish populations abound . There are so many other influencing factors . However it is undeniable that Otters eat fish , that's what they do .
 
It's not the otters fault. It's the fault of the ahem!!! well intentioned people that illegally restocked otters into our rivers. Otters declined by natural means because their normal food (eels) declined. These people (not to be named as I don't wish to financially stand against an organisation) should be prosecuted, however what is their crime except to deprive many people of their leisure? I personally have stopped fishing three rivers because of the catostrophic effect of their actions. I have for the most part stopped fishing for big barbel and now fish for any barbel, indeed a change for me.
 
Colin Dapp said:
It's not the otters fault. It's the fault of the ahem!!! well intentioned people that illegally restocked otters into our rivers. Otters declined by natural means because their normal food (eels) declined. These people (not to be named as I don't wish to financially stand against an organisation) should be prosecuted, however what is their crime except to deprive many people of their leisure? I personally have stopped fishing three rivers because of the catostrophic effect of their actions. I have for the most part stopped fishing for big barbel and now fish for any barbel, indeed a change for me.
Click to expand...

Otters in England experienced significant population decline a good 15 years before the Eel collapse of the mid 1970's (eg the population crashing to approx 10% of the levels in the 1960s and early 1970's). Are you saying they saw this coming? :)

I don't believe that anyone with a reasonable understanding of otter ecology (or indeed basic maths) can seriously argue that the resurgence in the whole English otter population is predominantly due to 117 otters being (legally) reintroduced in the Anglian and Thames areas between 1983 and 1999. It just isn't credible - think about it!
 
Hi men,

As pointed out before , the Eel being their staple food is a bit of a falsity, as the survey done to back this up was from the upper river , predominantly a game river where there was little else than eels , so the percentages would show that .


Hatter
 
Pre the otter population crash, what was the density? Most scientific reports suggest a dog otter would have a range of 15 miles or more of river. It seems on some rivers they are every 100yds lol. Also given he massive surge in otter population in the last 20 years, its obvious they should not have stocked them at all as they would have naturally colonised the rivers themselves. Yet another example of mans ability to totally screw up nature whenever we interfere, for good or bad. That said having interfered we should look for scientific evidence of the damage they are causing, have caused to justify management of the population.
 
Given the massive popularity of the Otter , and it's very powerful advocates , I feel that the only lobbying that would have any tangible result would be to persuade the supporters of the Otter that further re stocking is not required and that they should look at the Otter sanctuaries and dissuade them from releasing any more , then and only then would things have a chance of returning to a sensible balance . You will only get the ear of the Otter supporters if you can convince them that the Otter might come to some harm if x or y happened . In this case too many otters , not enough fish could lead to the Otter dying out again . Cull ? it will never ever happen .
 
People who think that eels are the staple food of Otters imo are in cloud cuckoo land. They will eat anything that swims, ducks, coots, swans and great Bustards too. Totally opportunistic in their environment.
 
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