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Advice Please

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Well said Darren. My experience of the LS (my low stock sections anyway) is that piling the bait in is the kiss of death.

Last year a couple of lads did just this, huge amounts of bait was put in on day one, and they sat on it for a whole week, day & night. They blanked as far as Barbel went. I believe they did have a few Bream but not big numbers.

Its no good trying to change the way it is - you just need to adopt the right tactic to start with.
 
Darren George said:
Richard,

You need to understand the relationship between the fish population and the food they eat. If your feed is not in tune with the scene under the surface then you will at worse only scare the fish, at best achieve poor results.

My theory is that the fish are well fed and spread out. They have little need to congregate except maybe in certain situations. They are used to finding individual items of natural food over large areas and adopt a meandering, grazing feeding behaviour, with little need to compete over concentrated, inert beds of bait. They are wandering, taking mouthfuls of food here and there when they find it.

But I believe my theory is irrelevant, and likely wrong, it is your theory that is important.

Course It could just be youre not giving the fish enough time to settle over the feed.
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Darren,

Your theory sounds like it might be OK to me. Most people would probably say that if you try something and it doesn't work then do something else and be happy. But for me one of the pleasures of angling is trying to understand the environment that my quarry lives in to try and optimise my chances,
 
I've done the big beds of bait thing on the lower, sometimes piling in gallons of hemp and mixed particles and sitting over it for a couple of days and tbh the results have been less than staggering, in fact you could say they have been downright disappointing, this is despite the fact that there are one or two high profile anglers who would have you believe that by day three the fish will be climbing up the rod.
I am now firmly in the scattered boilie camp and fish it much as I would fish the Teme, half a dozen loose baits and a mesh bag with three baits, one of which is attached to the hair, i.e. one bite at a time the difference to the Teme being instead of fishing in known swims for resident fish as you do on the Teme, on the lower you are sitting it out waiting for a travelling fish to find your bait, though there are some known hotspots on the length I fish.
If you want to specificly target the bream I find beds of small pellet do the trick with scalded pellet moulded round a cage feeder, or method feeder as they are now known, fished over the top. A tip rod and a couple of pellets on a shortish hooklength will provide plenty of sport and have you climbing up and down that bank like Chris Bonnington or an extra in 'Hamburger Hill'.
 
Adrian Williams said:
I've done the big beds of bait thing on the lower, sometimes piling in gallons of hemp and mixed particles and sitting over it for a couple of days and tbh the results have been less than staggering, in fact you could say they have been downright disappointing, this is despite the fact that there are one or two high profile anglers who would have you believe that by day three the fish will be climbing up the rod.
I am now firmly in the scattered boilie camp and fish it much as I would fish the Teme, half a dozen loose baits and a mesh bag with three baits, one of which is attached to the hair, i.e. one bite at a time the difference to the Teme being instead of fishing in known swims for resident fish as you do on the Teme, on the lower you are sitting it out waiting for a travelling fish to find your bait, though there are some known hotspots on the length I fish.
If you want to specificly target the bream I find beds of small pellet do the trick with scalded pellet moulded round a cage feeder, or method feeder as they are now known, fished over the top. A tip rod and a couple of pellets on a shortish hooklength will provide plenty of sport and have you climbing up and down that bank like Chris Bonnington or an extra in 'Hamburger Hill'.
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:D I could have written that post myself.

Just one addition I like to do - I add approx. 20% Vitalin before the hot water. Also do this first thing of a morning and leave in a sealed bucket until the evening. On opening mash/mix it by hand and compress. the finished mix is a lot stickier than just pellet alone
 
Vitalin is a superb binder, I whiz mine up in an old food processor to dust, it makes it bind even better. Another good binder is a tin of sweetcorn whizzed up with a drop of water and use that as the soaking liquid, it sets like concrete if you squeeze it too hard. When I remember, or can be bothered, I use pellets soaked in that for the first layer or core and then wrap the softer mix around the outside, that way you can be confident there is always something round your bait, important when you are fishing in 12 ft+ of water.
 
Howard Cooke said:
I think you are on the right lines Jim, but wouldn't some sort of diving expedition put things beyond doubt? I have no idea how much is costs to hire one of those mini submarine (yellow would work) things but it might be cheaper than a shed load of traps and would save an enormous amount of time. The river is, apparently, very deep and slow moving so possibly ideal conditions for an underwater exploration. Some of the hire cost could also be offset by charging a small fee to anyone wanting a short dive in a bream filled dark and mysterious river. Underwater footage and samples from the river bed could be taken and I am sure that this would put this fascinating issue to bed. I think we anglers spend far too much time poncing about on the riverbank when we could learn so much more on the river bed. It's about making an effort isn't it?
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By sheer coincidence, I did put on a wetsuit so that I could dive a local river. Incidentally, I am a qualified diver having undertaken a BSAC course many years ago. I would not recommend anybody reading this to attempt this feat without the necessary rigorous training.

A couple of years ago, I was fishing a very snaggy area which comprised a sunken tree. Around this tree collected all sorts of junk, old tyres, something that looked like a shopping trolley etc. I was using stout braid to hook and hold and the bait runner reel's clutch set rock solid. Being a responsible angler, I had the old Delkim on full volume so that I could hear it as I was doing a bit of chubbing on a second rod just few yards away. Anyway, you can guess what happened, I was baiting up the second rod and the alarm went off on the snag rod. I looked up in case it was a liner or some rubbish on the line only to see the rod disappearing into the water. That would probably have been the end of it but this rod was one of my hexagraphs and no way was I letting the best part of a £1000 vanish without trace.

I'm quite lucky that I have no need to work and returned the next day with my diving kit. Although the water was a bit up, the clarity of the water wasn't bad. The hexagraph was soon recovered which had been trapped in some old iron mongery. There was no sign of the barbel which was surprising as I was using 60lb braid. The downside was that the tip of my hexagraph was snapped and I had to replace this section which cost a packet. I had the broken section repaired and this has stiffened up the rod making it an even better snag rod.

Just a thought, one or two of the more sensible members on this Forum could maybe join Richard for a day on his river and pool our knowledge and thoughts on his conundrum. We could bait up different areas with different types of feed, groundbait/pellets, just pellets, pellets groundbait casters etc.etc. I would be more than happy to bring my diving kit to enable us to explore the topography and watch the fish's feeding behaviour at close quarters.
 
I have posed an accurate account of my experience on a stretch of river which has thrown up what to my mind is odd fish behaviour. The subject matter must be of interest to others as it has had over 3000 views. At the time of writing this it had clocked up 85 replies and it is when I take a closer look at the replies I think I can identify a problem. If I discount myself and Steve the moderator then the replies have come from just 24 people. Of these six have made a genuine effort to help me, and I offer my sincere thanks to Darren and the others. The other 18 are just complete time wasters more interested in sniping at others or carrying on some sort of internal attempt at schoolboy humour. They add no value to the thread or BFW and seem to be in it entirely for their own gratification and self publicity. I have also received PM’s from members talking about how tired they are of these people and that I should not let them stop me from posting.

For my part this is not a problem. After over 30 years on angling committees and coaching other anglers and dealing with multiple hostile negotiations in business my skin is as thick as a rhino’s. But what effect does this “on line Mafia†have on the hundreds of other members who have viewed this thread? Do they feel confident to join in or are they afraid that their (probably valid) viewpoints are going to publicly ridiculed by the “old boysâ€. The very lifeblood of both angling and on line forums such as BFW is new people coming in and adding to this wonderful pastime of ours and anything that discourages that is actually weakening angling as a whole.

The sad thing is that if I met these people face to face the chances are we would get on just fine...we are all anglers after all. However as soon as they have a keyboard in front of them they seem to undergo some sort of personality change, the way some people do in a pub when they have had too much to drink.
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
I have posed an accurate account of my experience on a stretch of river which has thrown up what to my mind is odd fish behaviour. The subject matter must be of interest to others as it has had over 3000 views. At the time of writing this it had clocked up 85 replies and it is when I take a closer look at the replies I think I can identify a problem. If I discount myself and Steve the moderator then the replies have come from just 24 people. Of these six have made a genuine effort to help me, and I offer my sincere thanks to Darren and the others. The other 18 are just complete time wasters more interested in sniping at others or carrying on some sort of internal attempt at schoolboy humour. They add no value to the thread or BFW and seem to be in it entirely for their own gratification and self publicity. I have also received PM’s from members talking about how tired they are of these people and that I should not let them stop me from posting.

For my part this is not a problem. After over 30 years on angling committees and coaching other anglers and dealing with multiple hostile negotiations in business my skin is as thick as a rhino’s. But what effect does this “on line Mafia†have on the hundreds of other members who have viewed this thread? Do they feel confident to join in or are they afraid that their (probably valid) viewpoints are going to publicly ridiculed by the “old boysâ€. The very lifeblood of both angling and on line forums such as BFW is new people coming in and adding to this wonderful pastime of ours and anything that discourages that is actually weakening angling as a whole.

The sad thing is that if I met these people face to face the chances are we would get on just fine...we are all anglers after all. However as soon as they have a keyboard in front of them they seem to undergo some sort of personality change, the way some people do in a pub when they have had too much to drink.
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I assume Richard that this thread has got a little stale with insufficient bite for you hence your latest provocative post. Roll the hand grenade in, sit back and watch it blow. When carrying out your forensic analysis of this thread you would have done well to have also examined your other thread on braid v mono. I did reply to that with helpful comments but, as others noted, your posts contained increasingly arrogant and unnecessarily provocative statements ("incorrect opinions", "lesser anglers" etc) which, I ultimately came to conclude, were deliberately made to cause hostility and friction. Being on this forum for around 10 months now, I have found that it is mostly informative with the majority of people being genuine and helpful in their posts. Like any area of life, there will be challenging debate and there will also be irreverent humour and thank god for all that. Yes, at times, lines and boundaries are crossed, but I think in the main it's all healthy stuff. Personally, I do take an often leftfield slant on life but this is never to undermine or derail- only to offer a different perspective. I feel confident that this forum is big and bold enough to embrace a diverse collection of people but bound by a common interest. Provided it remains respectful then, I see nothing bad. However, I think you have crossed that line of respect in some of the statements and comments you have made and I would urge you to look to yourself and your own contributions to this forum before casting your net of accusation.
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
I have posed an accurate account of my experience on a stretch of river which has thrown up what to my mind is odd fish behaviour. The subject matter must be of interest to others as it has had over 3000 views. At the time of writing this it had clocked up 85 replies and it is when I take a closer look at the replies I think I can identify a problem. If I discount myself and Steve the moderator then the replies have come from just 24 people. Of these six have made a genuine effort to help me, and I offer my sincere thanks to Darren and the others. The other 18 are just complete time wasters more interested in sniping at others or carrying on some sort of internal attempt at schoolboy humour. They add no value to the thread or BFW and seem to be in it entirely for their own gratification and self publicity. I have also received PM’s from members talking about how tired they are of these people and that I should not let them stop me from posting.

For my part this is not a problem. After over 30 years on angling committees and coaching other anglers and dealing with multiple hostile negotiations in business my skin is as thick as a rhino’s. But what effect does this “on line Mafia” have on the hundreds of other members who have viewed this thread? Do they feel confident to join in or are they afraid that their (probably valid) viewpoints are going to publicly ridiculed by the “old boys”. The very lifeblood of both angling and on line forums such as BFW is new people coming in and adding to this wonderful pastime of ours and anything that discourages that is actually weakening angling as a whole.

The sad thing is that if I met these people face to face the chances are we would get on just fine...we are all anglers after all. However as soon as they have a keyboard in front of them they seem to undergo some sort of personality change, the way some people do in a pub when they have had too much to drink.
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I'm right with Richard on this one. As Rich pointed out there have been many replies and views which demonstrates the great interest generated by Richard's original post. Again as Richard mentioned in his post, inevitably, we would all get on well on the bankside and hence my suggestion of a get together. Richard makes a very valid point in avoiding personal comment, we should concentrate on facts as far as possible rather than an individual's opinions. That's why I find Howard Cooke's opinions obnoxious. I do recall, Rich, that you made the very valid comment in connection with the thread titled "Cormorant Petition" urging caution, in response to one of my previous posts suggesting thinning of these birds.

By Richard Hamlyn
“A middle aged man out walking his dog had to be air lifted to Bristol Frenchay hospital today after suffering a gunshot wound to the head. Police are questioning an angler who maintained that this was acceptable collateral damage considering the damage that the black plague was doing to his pet carp called Norman. The riparian owner said the facility would remain closed for the foreseeable future.”

This response just demonstrates that common-sense is alive in some quarters. We do have sensible, constructive comments on this Forum and long may that continue. Again, I have to agree that the "Time Wasters" should be banished as they add absolutely nothing. .
 
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