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Advice Please

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Richard Hamlyn

No Longer a Member
I know there are those here who believe I already know everything, but that is patently not true (well, not yet anyway) so I would like to seek advice from people who may have encountered a similar problem as myself when fishing for Barbel.

As I live in the South West my options for Barbel fishing are limited to trips away to the river and a more local still water. The river I have access to is wide, deep (12’+) and very slow moving. In the summer the flow is not dissimilar to the still water which is much shallower and windblown and therefore subject to quite a strong tow. I need as much weight to fish the lake as I do to hold bottom on the river on many occasions. The problem I have is trying to figure out how to feed the fish to the best effect on the river. I know what follows may seem illogical but I can assure you it is the truth as several of my mates who fish the same stretch have had the same experience. If you cast out a feeder or PVA mesh or stringer with a few boilies in it just about anywhere in the river and wait for ½ hour or so then there is a very good chance the rod will go over and you will be into a fish of around 8lbs or so. At the time of casting it feels all wrong because there is this large expanse (and I mean miles) of featureless (on the surface anyway) water in front of me and you get the feeling that to plonk it anywhere near a fish will require a considerable amount of luck as the stretch has a good but not massive head of Barbel. However this is not the case, and if a bite does not develop in about 45 mins then chucking it within 30’ or so from the first cast or generally searching around the swim will invariably produce a response. My reaction to this situation was to introduce a reasonably concentrated bed of feed into the swim with a dropper and to wait for the fish to find it and start to feed with confidence with the view of catching multiple fish rather than one at a time and then searching around the river for the next one. To this end I have introduced beds of hemp / casters / pellets / crushed boilies and vitalin in various combinations and locations but the result has always been the same……not a sausage. Not only that but the stretch contains a huge head of big bream and the same thing happens with them. In fact you get the feeling that the sight of a bed of feed actually scares them and this is on a stretch of river where the angling pressure is almost zero. As soon as you go back to isolated pocket of food in the bag or feeder over goes the rod again. The very opposite happens on the still water. I may have to wade through loads of Bream Carp and Tench while I wait for the Barbel to arrive, but once that has happened they invariably push the other fish out of the swim and I can catch Barbel one after another. Once again this experience is mirrored by other angles on the water. The fish themselves are all in terrific condition and at the end of the day all swim away strongly, even the ones on the still water which get caught far more regularly than the ones in the river. In fact I’m sure that many of the river fish are being hooked for the first time in their lives. Given that they are the same species can anyone please throw some light as to why they seem to behave so differently?

Richard
 
Are you fishing into darkness Richard? If you can and you haven't tried it, see what happens on the river with your bed of bait approach.
 
Bleedin 'ell Richard...first you rile everyone with your somewhat Boote like attitude problem, then you admit to fishing for still water barbel :eek: :D

You certainly know how to upset folk :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
I suppose with living in Devon you might have to resort to picking off Barbel in stillwater, if you really have too.

However, I note you consider Barbel fishing and those that fish for them amount to somewhat lesser species and lesser anglers, however the Tench provides you with all the skill sets you have in the catching, and the Kudos.

So I can only ask is why then bother to wade and cast over the Tench and others to catch a species that blatently does not belong in such a lake and provides you with easy sport, but you expect us to advise on feeding patterns of still water Barbel?

You would well know, and I should think all those that fish for Barbel on here would be against still water barbel, and yet you ask for advice on how to help you catch more of these matchmens stock?

You sound awfully like a WUM.:)
 
My advice on fishing for still water Barbel is DONT, they do not belong there and have been used as a change from carp for the matchmen that fish these waters.
 
Some of the young anglers coming through will never have the thrill of a barbel steaming down the Severn because they think the Stillwater barbel is the norm.they have no right to be in a pond.
Albert
 
Steve Williams,
Thank you for this, I do not make personal comment against other individuals even though they are happy to hold different opinions to the available evidence. Therefore I would respectfully ask that the likes of Smart and Clark offer the same level of civility to myself.

I would like to respond to some of the more helpful replies though.

Darren, Your point is well made regarding competition for food. If I understand you correctly you suggest that I may be over estimating the head of Barbel present and as such I am making things more difficult for myself by introducing larger amounts of concentrated feed. What you have said makes sense but the fly in the ointment on this theory is that there are definitely huge amounts of big Bream in the stretch and for some inexplicable reason they behave the same way as the Barbel. Who ever heard of a shoal of big Bream that did not like to get their heads down over a bed of casters? If you have more thoughts on this Darren I would love to hear more from you.

Anthony, fishing on into dark is another mystery element on the stretch I fish. It does produce fish but not significantly better than the daytime. I have tried baiting up very accurately down the edge (which is still 8’ deep minimum) and fishing this into the night with very patchy results. At no time do I get the feeling that a shoal of Barbel have got their heads down on the feed. Again please feel free to offer your thoughts on this.

David, I think you at least have the ability to find the humour hidden away in the posts, please continue to seek as it’s in there somewhere……

I’m not going to get into a debate on still water Barbel as I suspect I would just get emotive responses. However I would like to point out that the waters open to me in the South West are limited and when I fish them I am basically fishing for bites and I enjoy catching any fish that responds as long as they are large enough to pull back a bit. I catch the species mentioned in my original post because they are in the lake rather than deliberate targeting. I could fish shallow but then I would catch Carp all day and miss out on the fun from all the other species. As to the notion that I should boycott any still water because the owner has stocked it with Barbel; the simple answer is I will fish anywhere I am legally allowed to and I do not feel the least bit guilty for doing so.

Finally I have a fine selection of fishing mates to choose from who I have known for many years. Not only are they fine anglers with a deep knowledge of the sport and the environment but they also give generously of their time doing all the dogsbody jobs that an angling club or group relies on. I hope to make friends with similar people on this site but I will never be friends with people who have nothing better to do than make snide comments against people who have a more factual, evidence based approach, to our sport.

Richard
 
Hi Richard,
I suppose your sitting in Bivies with your fellow TOP anglers fishing stillwaters for Barbel ay Richard?..:D:D:D:D:D..

Anyway if your ANGLING FRIENDS are that good and accomplished unlike most on here, as youve said in previous posts, why are you bovering to ask our thoughts and opinions?..:D:D:D:D:D

I Strongly suspect that Mr BOOTE is back..:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D.

Good to have you back Mr Paul Boote..:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Having read the other replies I'm unsure if there is some water under the bridge and wonder whether this topic is 'for real'. Anyhow.

There are two variables in competition for food, the first is the competition, the second which I feel you have overlooked slightly, is the food.

All I can say for sure is that the bed of bait approach / quantity of feed involved is not in-tune with the river, it is in tune with stillwater. You have found the optimum amount of feed / frequency of feeding to blank on the river, and catch well on the stillwater.

Can't expand further as I know nothing of your chosen waters or your approach. It's all conjecture.
 
Steve Williams,
Thank you for this, I do not make personal comment against other individuals even though they are happy to hold different opinions to the available evidence. Therefore I would respectfully ask that the likes of Smart and Clark offer the same level of civility to myself.

I would like to respond to some of the more helpful replies though.

Darren, Your point is well made regarding competition for food. If I understand you correctly you suggest that I may be over estimating the head of Barbel present and as such I am making things more difficult for myself by introducing larger amounts of concentrated feed. What you have said makes sense but the fly in the ointment on this theory is that there are definitely huge amounts of big Bream in the stretch and for some inexplicable reason they behave the same way as the Barbel. Who ever heard of a shoal of big Bream that did not like to get their heads down over a bed of casters? If you have more thoughts on this Darren I would love to hear more from you.

Anthony, fishing on into dark is another mystery element on the stretch I fish. It does produce fish but not significantly better than the daytime. I have tried baiting up very accurately down the edge (which is still 8’ deep minimum) and fishing this into the night with very patchy results. At no time do I get the feeling that a shoal of Barbel have got their heads down on the feed. Again please feel free to offer your thoughts on this.

David, I think you at least have the ability to find the humour hidden away in the posts, please continue to seek as it’s in there somewhere……

I’m not going to get into a debate on still water Barbel as I suspect I would just get emotive responses. However I would like to point out that the waters open to me in the South West are limited and when I fish them I am basically fishing for bites and I enjoy catching any fish that responds as long as they are large enough to pull back a bit. I catch the species mentioned in my original post because they are in the lake rather than deliberate targeting. I could fish shallow but then I would catch Carp all day and miss out on the fun from all the other species. As to the notion that I should boycott any still water because the owner has stocked it with Barbel; the simple answer is I will fish anywhere I am legally allowed to and I do not feel the least bit guilty for doing so.

Finally I have a fine selection of fishing mates to choose from who I have known for many years. Not only are they fine anglers with a deep knowledge of the sport and the environment but they also give generously of their time doing all the dogsbody jobs that an angling club or group relies on. I hope to make friends with similar people on this site but I will never be friends with people who have nothing better to do than make snide comments against people who have a more factual, evidence based approach, to our sport.

Richard

Richard . Lake or river , big lump of Garlic Spam on a size 6 will have the resident barbel crawling up your rods , all the others species won't have a chance as they will be pushed out of the way in the rush . I would have thought your friends would have twigged this approach by now . Maybe there not such good mates after all , funny sorts anglers .......
 
Hi Richard,
I suppose your sitting in Bivies with your fellow TOP anglers fishing stillwaters for Barbel ay Richard?..:D:D:D:D:D..

Anyway if your ANGLING FRIENDS are that good and accomplished unlike most on here, as youve said in previous posts, why are you bovering to ask our thoughts and opinions?..:D:D:D:D:D

I Strongly suspect that Mr BOOTE is back..:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D.

Good to have you back Mr Paul Boote..:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

This chap isn't Paul Boote . Language is not sophisticated enough , no latin quotes . Anyway Colonel Crowe taught Paul all he needed to know about barbelling donkeys years ago :D
 
Hi Richard, Let me introduce myself and consider me to be your friend. For in the past I have been much pilloried and mocked. You will need or develop a thick hide on this Site. There are some very nice people who will help greatly in the quest for knowledge. Others, who I should not really name, Dave Gauntlett being an example, can only be described as Lucifer's right hand man. He has led many astray on this Site with advice pertaining to be helpful but in reality designed to hinder the pursuit of barbel. I'm convinced that there are many like him. These peoples' aim is to set out to reduce your catches, with bad advice, which automatically enhances their reputation.

You may have seen some of my posts which have been rubbished. Excellent advice on the purchase of Paramo clothing - as recommended by Sir Rannulph, no less ( we went to the same school and share the same club) and how equipment with the "right" labels can add, significantly to your enjoyment of fishing.

In fact, Dixie, asked that I do not go on BFW as she is sick of the hate mail that was coming in. It got so bad at one stage, that someone on here managed to track my address down and I received a rotten herring in the post.

As Dixie's dad used to say, if it is worth writing then say it. Don't let the literary fascists and communists break the will of the quill.
 
Hi Richard, Let me introduce myself and consider me to be your friend. For in the past I have been much pilloried and mocked. You will need or develop a thick hide on this Site. There are some very nice people who will help greatly in the quest for knowledge. Others, who I should not really name, Dave Gauntlett being an example, can only be described as Lucifer's right hand man. He has led many astray on this Site with advice pertaining to be helpful but in reality designed to hinder the pursuit of barbel. I'm convinced that there are many like him. These peoples' aim is to set out to reduce your catches, with bad advice, which automatically enhances their reputation.

You may have seen some of my posts which have been rubbished. Excellent advice on the purchase of Paramo clothing - as recommended by Sir Rannulph, no less ( we went to the same school and share the same club) and how equipment with the "right" labels can add, significantly to your enjoyment of fishing.

In fact, Dixie, asked that I do not go on BFW as she is sick of the hate mail that was coming in. It got so bad at one stage, that someone on here managed to track my address down and I received a rotten herring in the post.

As Dixie's dad used to say, if it is worth writing then say it. Don't let the literary fascists and communists break the will of the quill.

I think that is rubbish,i know anglers that Dave has actively tried to help in their Barbel angling,
 
Hi Richard, Let me introduce myself and consider me to be your friend. For in the past I have been much pilloried and mocked. You will need or develop a thick hide on this Site. There are some very nice people who will help greatly in the quest for knowledge. Others, who I should not really name, Dave Gauntlett being an example, can only be described as Lucifer's right hand man. He has led many astray on this Site with advice pertaining to be helpful but in reality designed to hinder the pursuit of barbel. I'm convinced that there are many like him. These peoples' aim is set out to reduce your catches, with bad advice, which automatically enhances their reputation.

You may have seen some of my posts which have been rubbished. Excellent advice on the purchase of Paramo clothing - as recommended by Sir Rannulph, no less ( we went to the same school and share the same club) and how equipment with the "right" labels can add, significantly to your enjoyment of fishing.

In fact, Dixie, asked that I do not go on BFW as she is sick of the hate mail that was coming in. It got so bad at one stage, that someone on here managed to track my address down and I received a rotten herring in the post.

As Dixie's dad used to say, if it is worth writing then say it. Don't let the literary fascists and communists break the will of the quill.

I think that is rubbish,i know anglers that Dave has actively tried to help in their Barbel angling,

Who asked for your opinion? As a New Member you should know better than to question some of the sage's musings on this Forum. Incidentally, why have you one of those Highland Terrier's alongside your name. This is a fishing site not Crufts.
 
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