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A new Carp lake.

Maybe it's because I fish for most of the UK species of fish, or maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember the days before Carp fishing was so widely available but I don't understand the need to belittle aspects of carp fishing, because they're not your cup of tea.

Also shouldn't this be moved to the Other Species Fishing pages?
 
There are regulations regarding these fisheries and the important factor regarding such places is if they are connected to moving water ie streams or
rivers, if they are it seems the EA are pretty hot on what fish can be introduced and other factors, if not it seems regulations are relaxed.
Is that right Joe, and is there fish welfare stocking numbers to surface and depth area consideration?
As an amateur fish keeper in the past there were strict guidelines as to how many fish could be kept in a given area which is attributed to fish welfare.
I believe all fisheries are required to be licensed as all anglers are, or is that just as unforceable as the rod licence?
 
Vince Maddock said:
Maybe it's because I fish for most of the UK species of fish, or maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember the days before Carp fishing was so widely available but I don't understand the need to belittle aspects of carp fishing, because they're not your cup of tea.

Also shouldn't this be moved to the Other Species Fishing pages?
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Why do that Vince? Unless it makes uncomfortable reading ...other species doesn't get so many views why would I want that🙄
 
Neil Smart said:
Why do that Vince? Unless it makes uncomfortable reading ...other species doesn't get so many views why would I want that🙄
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Well it seems obvious to me, this is the Barbel Talk section of the forum and this is the first time Barbel have been mentioned..
 
I run a fishery and yes fisheries have to be licensed.

However; the EA Fishery service is woefully under-funded and there aren’t nearly enough Fishery officers to do the job properly.

Basically the system is broken and to put it bluntly the EA let fishery owners do what they like - particularly on off-line waters. Even on on-line waters the rules aren’t what they should be - for example the spread of catfish and the non-use of ILFA legislation (import of live fish act).

I used to be involved in angling politics and 20 years ago there was a review of Fisheries legislation. I remember standing in front of the govt appointed committee and dismantling the current legislation relating to fish movements. I was speaking on behalf of all the major angling bodies (the Moran committee) and we made copious written submissions to back our case. The legislative review eventually made something like 46 recommendations and at a guess less than 10 have been ‘enacted’. Fisheries is low priority and getting lower !

One of the recommendations from the Review was that all fishery owners/managers must have accredited qualifications to support fish welfare concerns. Guess what - that hasn’t happened……

Worse still; I used to have 2 meetings a year with the EA ‘head of Fisheries’ and/or his deputy. A fantastic opportunity to put across the views of specialist anglers (and find out how useless and out of touch the major angling governing bodies were!). But I also got to see which way the wind was blowing and where the EA was heading…..We talked at length about fish welfare, stocking density guidelines, fish movement legislation, fish importation etc etc.

What has come to pass over the last 20 years is lamentable. Fish welfare has basically been forgotten.

Animal welfare is shooting up the public and political agenda (Charlotte Dujardin etc) and angling will have big issues to confront in the near future.
 
Tim Marks said:
I run a fishery and yes fisheries have to be licensed.

However; the EA Fishery service is woefully under-funded and there aren’t nearly enough Fishery officers to do the job properly.

Basically the system is broken and to put it bluntly the EA let fishery owners do what they like - particularly on off-line waters. Even on on-line waters the rules aren’t what they should be - for example the spread of catfish and the non-use of ILFA legislation (import of live fish act).

I used to be involved in angling politics and 20 years ago there was a review of Fisheries legislation. I remember standing in front of the govt appointed committee and dismantling the current legislation relating to fish movements. I was speaking on behalf of all the major angling bodies (the Moran committee) and we made copious written submissions to back our case. The legislative review eventually made something like 46 recommendations and at a guess less than 10 have been ‘enacted’. Fisheries is low priority and getting lower !

One of the recommendations from the Review was that all fishery owners/managers must have accredited qualifications to support fish welfare concerns. Guess what - that hasn’t happened……

Worse still; I used to have 2 meetings a year with the EA ‘head of Fisheries’ and/or his deputy. A fantastic opportunity to put across the views of specialist anglers (and find out how useless and out of touch the major angling governing bodies were!). But I also got to see which way the wind was blowing and where the EA was heading…..We talked at length about fish welfare, stocking density guidelines, fish movement legislation, fish importation etc etc.

What has come to pass over the last 20 years is lamentable. Fish welfare has basically been forgotten.

Animal welfare is shooting up the public and political agenda (Charlotte Dujardin etc) and angling will have big issues to confront in the near future.
Click to expand...
I wonder how the general public would react to the news that most carp fisheries introduce inordinate amounts of bait just to increase the size of the fish to attract more income.
I see many Youtube videos recommending asking the bailiffs what the 'house' pellet is, and in some venues you'll be able to buy it directly.
I think most members of the general public would accept fishing as a hobby, a pastime in which the angler engages with the natural world. I'm not sure that being aware of how most lakes operate that acceptance would be as forthcoming.
It typifies the movement towards making money at all costs and the loss of a sense of values to hold dear. You might argue that it's just fishing, and well I guess it is, but in the wider society such attitudes have far reaching consequences.
Less is sometimes much more.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
I wonder how the general public would react to the news that most carp fisheries introduce inordinate amounts of bait just to increase the size of the fish to attract more income.
I see many Youtube videos recommending asking the bailiffs what the 'house' pellet is, and in some venues you'll be able to buy it directly.
I think most members of the general public would accept fishing as a hobby, a pastime in which the angler engages with the natural world. I'm not sure that being aware of how most lakes operate that acceptance would be as forthcoming.
It typifies the movement towards making money at all costs and the loss of a sense of values to hold dear. You might argue that it's just fishing, and well I guess it is, but in the wider society such attitudes have far reaching consequences.
Less is sometimes much more.
Click to expand...
When I worked at a fishery and fish farm over 25 years ago, the fishery owner who was a qualified aquaculturalist always had a ban on all pellets other than the 'house pellet'. This wasn't popular with anglers who generally seemed to take the view that was a decision motivated by profit. It wasn't, it was purely driven by welfare and the fish to ensure that the fish were not feeding on oily pellets that can cause liver and kidney damage. Nor did he want the pellets to have high protein levels as he believed them to be potentiay bad for water quality (ammonia?) and unnecessary for steady fish growth.
 
Tim Marks said:
I run a fishery and yes fisheries have to be licensed.

However; the EA Fishery service is woefully under-funded and there aren’t nearly enough Fishery officers to do the job properly.

Basically the system is broken and to put it bluntly the EA let fishery owners do what they like - particularly on off-line waters. Even on on-line waters the rules aren’t what they should be - for example the spread of catfish and the non-use of ILFA legislation (import of live fish act).

I used to be involved in angling politics and 20 years ago there was a review of Fisheries legislation. I remember standing in front of the govt appointed committee and dismantling the current legislation relating to fish movements. I was speaking on behalf of all the major angling bodies (the Moran committee) and we made copious written submissions to back our case. The legislative review eventually made something like 46 recommendations and at a guess less than 10 have been ‘enacted’. Fisheries is low priority and getting lower !

One of the recommendations from the Review was that all fishery owners/managers must have accredited qualifications to support fish welfare concerns. Guess what - that hasn’t happened……

Worse still; I used to have 2 meetings a year with the EA ‘head of Fisheries’ and/or his deputy. A fantastic opportunity to put across the views of specialist anglers (and find out how useless and out of touch the major angling governing bodies were!). But I also got to see which way the wind was blowing and where the EA was heading…..We talked at length about fish welfare, stocking density guidelines, fish movement legislation, fish importation etc etc.

What has come to pass over the last 20 years is lamentable. Fish welfare has basically been forgotten.

Animal welfare is shooting up the public and political agenda (Charlotte Dujardin etc) and angling will have big issues to confront in the near future.
Click to expand...
Thanks Tim for a very detailed and eye opening response.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
When I worked at a fishery and fish farm over 25 years ago, the fishery owner who was a qualified aquaculturalist always had a ban on all pellets other than the 'house pellet'. This wasn't popular with anglers who generally seemed to take the view that was a decision motivated by profit. It wasn't, it was purely driven by welfare and the fish to ensure that the fish were not feeding on oily pellets that can cause liver and kidney damage. Nor did he want the pellets to have high protein levels as he believed them to be potentiay bad for water quality (ammonia?) and unnecessary for steady fish growth.
Click to expand...
It seems a little bonkers does it not to posit that the fish require anything, having existed as a species eating whatever natural food they could find.
I wonder sometimes whether in making things easier for river anglers, we have unwittingly spelt the end of our quarry for having them rely so heavily on boilies and pellets.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Each to their own.

Nobody can pass judgement on any perceived 'animal welfare' issues resultant from the stocking policies unless they know exactly what the current and planned stocking densities are.

There is nothing to suggest the owners will be stocking carp sourced from abroad, for all we know they could be stocking the lake with strains with a lot of English history. But let's not forget that those Galician carp caught by the likes of Walker and Yates and revered by anglers, may well have not originated in the UK.

And good luck to anyone hoping to make a profit out of such a venture, but that is highly unlikely I suspect. And this is probably more a hobby project that will at best just about wash it's face. But if it provides some anglers some peaceful fishing that they enjoy away from this imcreasingly mad world, well I say good luck to them. There are plenty of other more important things happening in the world that are worth getting angry about. This isn't one of them.
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Agreed, Joe. Raw nature is less and less for everyone so anything getting people out of the virtual world and into the real one has to be a good thing
 
Dave Quinn said:
Agreed, Joe. Raw nature is less and less for everyone so anything getting people out of the virtual world and into the real one has to be a good thing
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Not wishing to play semantics here, but I think that's the point - it's not the real one.
I think rather sadly we've come to accept the way that things are however.
Anyway, the sun is out here in Carlisle and that is a rare occasion that has to illicit nothing but joy.
Can't have the state of fishing putting a dampener on that.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
Not wishing to play semantics here, but I think that's the point - it's not the real one.
I think rather sadly we've come to accept the way that things are however.
Anyway, the sun is out here in Carlisle and that is a rare occasion that has to illicit nothing but joy.
Can't have the state of fishing putting a dampener on that.
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That was also what I was getting at - people don’t might not want the real thing but getting outdoors even if it is a bit like sitting in your own front room is better than not at all.

I’d take my kids doing it instead of sitting at home on the Xbox all day
 
We all make choices, mine may not be yours and yours may not be mine. I’m comfortable with my choices and I hope that the choices you are comfortable with bring you the same pleasure that mine do me. I do not judge your choices, nor do I care if you judge mine. For goodness sake guys live and let live. In the big scheme of things, given what’s going on in the country never mind abroad we’re damned lucky to be able to do our own thing!
Here Enders the lesson!
 
Neil Smart said:
Just read on FB there is a new lake being prepped in nearby Forest of Dean. It's an established small lake that the new owners intend to net all the silvers and carp Under 18 lb .…and fill in with 'whackers' ..already got the bivvy size dancefloor pegs and removed nuisance trees .
Serious vandalism, and I said so.
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Sadly, unless you are fortunate enough to belong to a syndicate you have a choice of seriously overcrowded club lakes or these type of places. It's only going to get worse.
 
I fish all different places. My local river with a rod, net and bag. The Trent for overnight sessions with all the gear. A local Tench pond on the lift method. And ‘hole in the ground’ Carp lakes. Just got back from one of those actually after a couple of days there with my kids. They loved it. Camping, bacon sandwiches, late nights, takeaway and cake ordered to the gates, and my lad played in his first 20 as well as the others we caught.

Lakes are being changed because fishing and the demand has changed. I take my kids float fishing too, but that’s because I started off like that and appreciate all forms of angling still. The modern era sees a lot of that missing, and there’s no money in a lake stocked with silvers unless it’s a commercial with more fish than water. Some clubs have the membership to be able to offer a variety of fishing. Others, and fisheries run as businesses, have to adapt or die.That’s the truth of it.

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