3 rigs - what do you reckon?

[Simon Haggis]

Ok, in relation to the 'what are you going to do differently for the coming season' thread here are 3 rigs I've been messing about with to try and improve the camo factor and also convert more bites into hooked fish.

It's worth saying that the bit of river I have been fishing has some bigger fish in it so these are strong rigs for wise old kippers!


Rig 1)

First up my standard rig that has proved strong enough to flip over some decent fish and also tow my car home.

15lb clear Big Game mainline is tied to a lead clip with a 1oz gravel coated lead. Then a loop in the end of 15lb super mantis enables me to slide on a pva stick and re-attach the hooklink quickly. A bit of tubing slips over this loop by the swivel to prevent tangles. Near the hook 8 cms is stripped back to allow movement. An ESP Raptor in size 7 tied knotless knot matches a barrel hookbait perfectly. Then blob a bit of putty on to make sure it is pinned to the bottom and also helps the hook turn.

Pluses: It's really strong and quick to tie. If the hook's in then the fish is mine!

Minuses: It's not that subtle and I had an awful lot of hooked fish drop off so it can't be that good. I also find lead clips do not eject the lead no matter how short you trim down the ends that go into the tail rubber. This isn't helpful in thick weed as it gives the fish a chance to shed the hook.

I'm thinking one thing that may prevent confident takes or good hook holds is the movement that a lead clips allows the fish before it would feel the full weight of the lead. This is what I mean:

Lead starts off like this and fish pulls bait:

It begins to feel a bit of resistance as the lead shifts to this position:

Only after moving the bait maybe 2" will the lead be in this position and the lead fully pulling against the hook:

That movement is plenty of time for a lightly pricked fish to start to feel somethings up and eject the bait (maybe, dunno!)

If the fish tries to eject the bait then the fixed hair will just carry the hook and bait out as the fish blows out:

Rig 2)

So I wanted to improve on:

a) the camo aspect
b) the hooking potential by using a lead that didn't move
c) getting the lead to drop off when a fish was hooked
d) the anti-ejection if a fish gets it in its gob.


This is it:

Going from mainline to hook:

Tied to whatever mainline (mahin knot) is a 25lb ultima flouro shockleader. This stuff is very strong, is invisible in water and sinks (blobs of putty make doubly sure) but most importantly it is tough enough so that you can use as a drop off rig with an inline lead. Normally people use leadcore for drop off rigs in carp fishing but this stuff does the job while keeping it invisible.

This is how the drop off bit works:

Flouro leader is tied to this double ringed swivel. The other ring you attach the hooklink to:

Then one end of the swivel sticks into the end of an inline lead. The flouro leader has the tail rubber threaded onto it and slips over the other end of the lead

It's firm enough to hold together on casting but once a fish is on then the tension pulls the line taut and the lead springs off.

The inline lead has the advantage of allowing no movement before a fish hits the full weight of the lead plus when it drops off fish normally come to the surface and hopefully over the top of those weedbeds I usually lose fish on.

Next bit is the hooklength, pretty standard combi rig here. Figure of 8 loop at one end of soft flouro IQ2 tied with the allbright knot to a short section of braid. Massive improvement in invisibility in daylight. Blobs of brown putty keep it pinned down. The braid allows a decent bit of movement so a fish can easily suck a hookbait in.

Now the hook set up. Nash Twisters I have used for a little while for carp and they are really, really sharp and as the name suggests they flip round on to their point really well. I've also never bumped a fish off on them so thought I'd see how they work on this rig in smaller sizes.


Now for the anti-ejection stuff. Here's the business end:

The shrink tube is actually a line aligner to make the hook turn even better - if you've never tried this it really works.

This pic shows how the braid comes through the tubing better, v. important to cut the angle at 45 degrees so it flips the hook:

The hook bait is attached to the hook by a micro swivel (you can't see it very well as it's inside the bait). It enables the bait to spin round which may or may not help anti ejection but makes me feel like I'm doing something clever however pointless..

The braid is attached to the swivel on the hook and tied knotless knot style (except you tie it backwards as the hair is on the underside of the shank).

The theory is that the hair being right round the bend of the hook makes the hookpoint heavy and the supple braid allows the hookpoint to fall down.

If the fish tries to blow the bait out then the bait moves up the shank on the swivel leaving the hook in place just a tiny bit longer for the lead to do it's stuff (fingers crossed):

Pluses: A much more subtle rig, razor sharp anti ejection hook set up with everything helping it turn and dig in with a lead that falls off.

Minuses: Takes longer to tie, I'll be able to finish at least one more before june 16th! There are loads of knots in the system and I'd set the clutch a fraction lighter because of it. Not entirely confident using flouro.


Rig 3)

Now this one I've been thinking about for a while having dabbled with pop ups last season after watching the barbel even closer dvd. Reading something in a mag triggered how to finally do it the way I wanted.

Warning - Traditionalists, users of centre pins and luncheon meat trundlers should look away now

This is it:

There should be a braid hooklink attached to the swivel is but not shown in this pic.

The way it should sit is that the hookshank should be parallel to the river bed with the hookbait suspending it.

Basically the idea is the barrel hookbait obscures the longshanked hook when viewed from above or downstream.

To achieve this you need a perfectly waited pop up - not so buoyant that it raises the rig and holds it all up straight, but just buoyant enough so that the hookpoint is a few millimetres off the bottom.

The hookpoint is held in the optimum downward facing position to hook a fish and the very long extended hookshank created means that if a fish sucks this in it will very likely be hooked.

This awkward rig will be very difficult for the fish to eject and the long 'd' on the back of the hook means the hookbait is blown back along the hook shank before the hook is blown out.

To make the bent hooklink you use a stiff bristle material as used in chod rigs. It's not flouro so not invisible but it is buoyant.

Pluses: Big bite to hooking ratio.

Minuses: Good luck balancing this so it sits right!



Hopefully something in all that might be useful to someone and can help get that extra bite in the coming season. Let me know if you've tried something similar or have any thoughts on improvements.

cheers, simon

 

[Jon Whelan]

Nice one Simon for taking the time to extensively detail your riggy thoughts. I was playing around on a version very similar to the last photo (DSC0783) & had reservation on the hook size that was needed. Most of my fishing is on the Trent & one drawback using larger hooks was the point dulling on the gravel. The Trent fortunately, the barbs are not that riggy so after having a few fish I discontinued this to my old combi rig incorporating the line aligner as you've illustrated. I am a firm believer that the line aligner helps turn combi rigs, especially when using smaller hooks. A personal preference is to use lead from leadcore rather than putty.

Not much to add that you've detailed already.

Cheers, Jon

 

[Andy Thatcher]

They will all catch fish.

I prefer sliding leads but that is just personal preference and never stopped me using bolt rigs if I felt they would give me an advantage in a given situation.

The last rig looks similar to something I was playing with once. I was having a nightmare start of season and couldn't hook let alone land anything. I even added a glued shard of cork to the back of the hook.

That rig broke my duck that year and soon confidence was back.

Rigs to my mind are a matter of confidence. Once you have a bait that will be eaten, plenty of those about, it is a matter of finding the right place to present it.

I think my last 2 seasons were spent just using Mugga's to Stealthskin with a simple knotless knot and can say neither let me down.

Talking of rigs I had better start trying to find my 8/0 Circles and 120lb hooklength material as the tarpon are coming soon !

 

[Simon Haggis]

Most of my fishing is on the Trent & one drawback using larger hooks was the point dulling on the gravel.

Agree Jon, first rig using an inturned point on the raptors was to address this. As Andy says he uses Mugga's which are a very similar and excellent hook.

Did either of you catch anything on your pop up type rigs?

 

[Craig Wood]

rigs

hi everyone
Great looking rigs..however i dont think its good leaving leads in the river??..Have seen these rigs before when i used to go carp fishing im still not convinced they are usefull for barbel..I have used bolt rigs for barbel and have found that the more pressured barbel are able to pick the bait up and easily eject the bait without a single movement on the rod tip..ive wathched barbel do this on the stour..During my experiments with rigs ive found an anti-resistance rig has better results fooling the more wiser bigger barbel and the bites are savage..My rig simple consisted of a hook tied to the main line and non-toxic plastercine wrapped around a pop-up weight,no need for any swivel and just one knott in the line which is the hook..Also if the fish goes in weed the plastercine comes off which leaves you connected to the barbel..Also the plastercine i use does indeed break down..You can also use the same rigg for rolling baits..

 

[Simon Haggis]

hi everyone
..I have used bolt rigs for barbel and have found that the more pressured barbel are able to pick the bait up and easily eject the bait without a single movement on the rod tip..

hi Craig, thanks for your comments.

Can you see the fish eject the bait on bolt rigs? if you can see them then I totally agree that where circumstances allow a bit of plasticine on the line is going to be the best rig for sight fishing and getting through weed better

However, for fishing in deep water where you can't see the fish a bolt rig is best imo. That really is my point with rig 2 and especially 3, these rigs aim to make it harder for the fish be able to eject a bait so easily and the bolt rig with an inline lead plus line aligner twists and hits home the hook better.

I don't think any leads left in the river would cause any sort of problem whatsoever - unless anyone knows any different? I'm not sure they'd break down. The amount if bites I get anyway would mean I might lose 2 leads a season!

cheers, simon

 

[Craig Wood]

rigs

hi simon
I know the problems your talking about as regards to deeper water and not much clarity..I was origanaly from the midlands and was brought up fishing the severn which like youve mentioned has very poor visibility..I did indeed use heavy rigs attached to bolt rigs which at first worked fine..However simon these rigs stopped working and i couldent figure out why untill i tried the same rigs in the river teme which has clarity..I watched the barbel do the same as i mentioned earlier about the stour..They actually pick the bait up and it seems feel some sort of resistance which then makes them drop the bait without any indication on the rod tip what so ever..I then tried a technique used by the matchmen on the severn which consisted of using light leads and more slack and bow in the line,not only did the light leads not move but the bite indication was savage!!..Theres alot more indication in slack line than there is in tighter lines plus the barbel dont seem to know there hooked...

 

[Craig Wood]

rigs

Ive also noticed that when barbel pick the bait up they seem to be looking just in front of them as though they are looking for anything else moving with the bait such as swivels or lead clips and when they see any movement they eject..which is why i think rigs with very little on the line will possibly fool the more pressured big barbel..I think they can see alot better than us anglers give them credit for even in not so clear water..crafty buggers!!!..

 

[Simon Haggis]

Hmm, food for thought. Not sure I can get my head round what you say though.

If you have an efficient bolt rig it does the job far better and quicker than a running or light lead does which gives an indication on the rod tip which you then strike - thats just what a bolt rig does far more efficiently surely?

In rig 1 I point out the inefficiency of the lead clip that can move and might account for the fish ejecting the bait when if feels resistance, but not the full weight of the lead.

Did you ever use inline leads on your bolt rigs?

 

[Craig Wood]

rigs

Ive used in-line and swivel typed leads when fishing the bolt rig..I used to think just like yourself that the barbel just had to hook themselves due to lead setting the hook in the barbels mouth..As i mentioned earlier i used to do alot of carp fishing i watched a underwater video which showed how various rigs worked what i saw amazed me!..the fish were picking up baits on bolt rigs and moving very slightly again without a single bleep or any indication and then ejecting..that would to me explain why alot of anglers say they havent had a bite when actually they probably have but theres been no indication..After seeing barbel do exactly the same i no longer use bolt rigs..have you tried a shock rig?..I recommend highly that you go to your local tackle shop and ask for the korda rig dvd which is free..My rigs consist of very little on the line and usually 2 to 3 foot between lead and hook believe me simon it works very well..

 

[Trevor Davies]

I know a barbel is totally different to a carp but a lot of the carp boys are starting to go back to running leads as the carp are actually using the heavy semi-fixed lead to shake out the hook without giving any indication on the rod tip/ alarms. i also realise that fishing running water is totally different to fishing a lake/ pit but i do believe there is something in using running leads too for barbel.

Trevor

 

[Simon Haggis]

yes I have watched plenty of those dvds, amazing footage, and usually makes me want to sell my rods when you see how many get away with it!

I have not tried a shock rig for barbel no. effectively you mean a running rig with 3" of movement before it becomes a bolt rig when the lead hits back stop?

the hermit rig may work well.

 

[Craig Wood]

rigs

Hermit rig??..is that the one where you stop indoors and dont bother at all due to years of frustration trying to outwitt fish?...I think its great that anglers share their thoughts and views but i cant help but to think all to often us anglers use rigs that look good to us and not nessersarily look as good to the fish were after?..Personally ive gone back to the basic fishing rigs and my results have improved a great deal..some of these rigs are just over complicated and un-nessersary..Many anglers who have great success all say the same thing...approach..location..keep it simple..

 

[Simon Haggis]

Can't argue with any of that, I'd like to be more successful though and feel sure a few tweaks will nail some fish when they start to wise up again a few months in to the season and feed more cautiously

 

[Jon Whelan]

For my carp fishing I changed to combi style rigs after seeing how readily the hook turned, esp' with line aligner. Prior to this for barbel & carp I mainly used size 6 or 8 mugga's to 9 inch of stealth skin (as already outlined) & caught many a fish of all sizes on different waters. The mugga is indeed a classic hook in my opinion. However, for barbel, I started to use much longer rigs & so the use of a monofil boom made this more than economic. Now using size 8 super specialist hooks on this rig to minimise point dulling.

For info, I had quite a few fish on the 'D' style rig with semi buoyant baits. For the Trent, I knew in advance that they would not necessarily improve my capture rate compared to that of the combi rig as these fish are far less introspective when it comes to grabbing an opportune bit of bait. With respect to this river, I use running lead arrangement as the flow makes any rig semi fixed & that I was loosing a few fish using much heavier leads.

I always think that anything can be improved upon. I am now preparing some interesting baits (hookers & ground bait) to hopefully increase the degree of preoccupation which will hopefully lower inhibitions & riggi-ness!

Last closed season, like you Simon, I was playing around with rigs, now on the bait thing & enjoying it. I have done a lot of reading too. This time of year for me is a good time to stand back & think. Does not matter that eventually I might be back to where I was 5 years ago - the mindless wandering over all aspects is food for thought.

Cheers, Jon

 

[Tom Rendell]

Great post Simon, and alot of thought and effort has gone into this. I pretty much use a similar rig to no1 but lighter.
Can i add that you use putty to pin down your 15lb super mantis, does mantis waft around off bottom? Im not sure what coated braids do this or dont do this. And for peace of mind iv check snake skin/bite in margins and i think it looks flat.
I do however use a shot or putty but to help turn hook. You've stated that is what your putty is also used for but i think its to far away from the hook to accomplish this?
So would 2 bits of putty be better?

Great inline lead set up, iv seen something like this before awhile ago in a carp mag, idea for a snag den.(Rig2.)
You say you have no confidence in fluro, is there any major reason for this?

Rig3, i have messed with similar pop up style rigs in carp fishing and unless using a bollie shaved back i cant get to grips with it. It would take a man with more patience. In the UCAP dvd did Guy and Stuart just glue a pop up or something to a curved long hook shank, i remember thinking carp anglers would prob laugh at that.

ps, i like what Jon says above, it seems we enjoy pre season messing and often do a full circle. What else can we do lol.

 

[Jeremy Evans]

Very interesting post Simon. One thing about leadclips is that i've found the Korda ones to be useless compared with either the Fox or ESP versions with the peg through them to hold the swivel in place, these will drop the lead in weed all the time. In 30 years of carp fishing i have gone through all sorts of rigs and fished some of the most pressured waters in the country and eventually i came to the conclusion that they suck it in, they blow it out and sometimes we get lucky. I know that watching the Korda underwater series would shock some as to how many times we get done without knowing it and i'm pretty sure this happens with Barbel just as much. My carp fishing and my barbel fishing is now done with simple rigs which i know work for me, basically i use a combi rig using fox cortex stripped back and a simple knotless knot with a small piece of silicon tubing to slightly extend the shank helping the hook to turn and a couple of the korda hooklength sinkers to keep the rig tight to the bottom. This rig is tied using Fox ssc hooks and does for all my boilie, pellet fishing. If using meat which i still do on occasions i use an ESP raptor to the same hooklength material with the hook straight through the bait. In mega clear water i will use fluoro but still the same simple knotless knot although it is rare that i go away from the cortex. All of my fishing is now done with running rigs on an enterprise snag safe lead clip and most takes carp or barbel are screamers which does for me. I feel that rigs along with bait can do your head in and i just like the keep it simple approach.

Jez

 

[Chris Fox]

Rigs... enough to mess your head up. Great photos and some good detailed thinking Simon - great during the close season!!

For me, I'm definitely a keep it simple person. Running lead, sinkbraid hooklength 8/10 drennan boilie hook. I've toyed with more complex rigs, but they don't seem to be any more effective. Planning to do a lot more stalking/sight fishing this summer so will hopefully see more fish reactions to my rig. For me its about confidence and I caught some nice fish in clear heavily fished venues. I'm much more concerned about my behaviour on the bank - keeping low, quiet and lowering in the bait/lead. I think that's much more likely to spook fish than my rig... interesting stuff.

 

[John Walker]

Andy, get one o them big silver jobs for me mate
i prefer using running leads too as i think that the water pressure on the line combined with the line being tight to the rod top isnt much different from a fixed lead in strong flowing waters when it comes to hooking em also i often use a backstop about 6"-10" behind the lead in both strong flows and more sedate flows, the bait in respect of the hookbend, with me its short but not too short to impede the pricking effect...j.w

 

[Simon Haggis]

Thanks for everyone's comments, appreciate the thoughts. Seems a real consensus is keep it simple and running rigs are probably best.

Tbh that is exactly why I am encouraged to mess about and try and do something that is not that.

However, I also feel that the shape of a barbels mouth and how they feed means that more often than not if they get a bait in their mouth they are hooked whatever the rig.

It's just the larger fish - not always cannier - may not be susceptible to these rigs.

Anyway..

Can i add that you use putty to pin down your 15lb super mantis, does mantis waft around off bottom?

agreed it needs another bit

I do however use a shot or putty but to help turn hook. You've stated that is what your putty is also used for but i think its to far away from the hook to accomplish this?
So would 2 bits of putty be better?

yes. I normally slip a pva stick down the hooklength and then put a small shot on the hooklength afterwards at the end of the bag if that makes sense

Great inline lead set up, iv seen something like this before awhile ago in a carp mag, idea for a snag den.(Rig2.)
You say you have no confidence in fluro, is there any major reason for this?

I think this inline set up will work really well.

Its not I have no confidence but I spose its more correct to say I have less confidence than in mantis which I have been using for years

One thing about leadclips is that i've found the Korda ones to be useless compared with either the Fox or ESP versions with the peg through them to hold the swivel in place, these will drop the lead in weed all the time.

Duly noted! Thanks.

In 30 years of carp fishing i have gone through all sorts of rigs and fished some of the most pressured waters in the country and eventually i came to the conclusion that they suck it in, they blow it out and sometimes we get lucky.

Despite my interest in rigs I said exactly this to a mate down the pub the other day. However..

I know that watching the Korda underwater series would shock some as to how many times we get done without knowing it and i'm pretty sure this happens with Barbel just as much.

And this is the challenge isn't it? We are getting done - on certain low population rivers which is what I'm talking about I am sure of it. How can we try and make sure we get a few more of those little pulls we miss turned into fish on the bank? Touch ledgering isn't viable with one bite every 24-48 hours.

My carp fishing and my barbel fishing is now done with simple rigs which i know work for me,

I settled for this too by and large, even used my barbel rigs when I was doing badly at carp fishing - see rig 1. But I know that if a barbel gets rig 3 in it's mouth its not coming out easily.

Put a polo in your mouth and it's easy to spit it back out if you want to.

Stick half a packet of polos in your mouth and it's not so easy to spit out - and that's the principle, as I'm sure you are all well aware, as an awkward rig (rig 3) means greater chance for the hook to grab hold.

i prefer using running leads too as i think that the water pressure on the line combined with the line being tight to the rod top isnt much different from a fixed lead in strong flowing waters

I disagree with you John (and most others it seems) that a running rig is better than a fixed inline lead. Everyone suggests that the water pressure on the line acts like a fixed lead anyway - true. Then we wait for the tip to wang round - again more pressure on the hook. So why not just use the fixed lead to begin with and get the most pressure applied as quickly as possible? Unless holding the line touch ledgering we wait for screamers so just fish a safe bolt rig to begin with.

when it comes to hooking em also i often use a backstop about 6"-10" behind the lead in both strong flows and more sedate flows,

This is a shock rig then. It's running for 6" then hits a back stop and becomes a bolt rig. No resistance then full resistance, nice rig!

Anyway, my plan is to fish far less than I did last year for barbel, time the conditions right, and do A vs B rig testing.

My prediction is I reckon rig 3 will score the most fish followed by rig 1 at night, and rig 2 will perform best during the day.

cheers, simon