Making your own bait.

[Simon Archer]

Thanks for all the tips and recipes folks, very kind to divulge them. But that's not quite what I had in mind. To me, that is just using someone else's recipe to roll boilies. I'd want to make my own mix up from scratch, including mixing different flavours together. Hence the 6 pick and mix flavours I'd put in JBs basket. The 6 I'd chosen would give me a combination of spicy, sweet, fishy. Out of those, I'd put them together to create my own flavour profile.

 

[Simon Archer]

There is also the issue of how you apply the bait and how quickly the fish will start to eat it….

If you hardly ever use boilies, then IMO there is little point in using a very expensive, bespoke (eg JB) base/flavour combo that is designed as a food source. These baits are conceived as long term baits and therefore have very low flavour levels. One downside of that concept is that it sometimes takes a while for the fish to switch onto the bait…..

Real world examples:

My mate and I have used the same off the shelf frozen boilie for the last 4 or 5 seasons, it catches barbel, chub, bream, carp and tench. If you take it chub fishing it catches on the first day on a new stretch - conditions (and fish availability) permitting. It catches straight away AND it goes on working.

Contrast that to a (JB) paste that we used 2 Winters ago for Thames chub. On my main stretch it took me 3 or 4 trips to get a bite on it; very lightly baiting each time (as per John’s instructions!). Then it just got better and better. By the end of the season I was catching 4 - 6 fish a trip and having re-captures. All that is exactly what that type of bait is designed to do….

BUT, I also fished 3 other stretches over the same time period on a very occasional basis. I tried the paste on each of them and didn’t get a single bite anywhere. If I used the boilie I caught fish…..

This last Winter I was involved in testing a new boilie. One small batch of bait split between 4 or 5 guys. As far as I know (and I’m a junior partner in the ‘team’) it was used on 3 barbel rivers this Winter and it caught upper doubles from all of them. All tricky low stock venues and only one or two anglers on each river. It wasn’t heavily baited, but it worked on all of them almost instantly.

Bearing all of the above in mind; you could buy the paste/boilie mix and then double the flavour level to make it a bit more instant (which rather negates the ‘quality’ of the base mix concept), or you could just buy a kilo or two of a proven boilie (iro 8 - 10 quid a kilo) and get on with it. And save yourself time and effort and money in the process. You would also remove the potential ‘issue’ of getting involved in home bait making in a bigger way…..

Pretty much my worry TBH. I use what I think is a good quality bait at the moment.

After going to the trouble and cost of making my own bait, there is still the fish to consider. After all that, they still may not actually eat my bait, and if they did, was it "my" bait, or just the fact they were in the right place at the right time, and would've eaten anything put in front of them on that particular day ??

 

[Tim Marks]

Pretty much my worry TBH. I use what I think is a good quality bait at the moment.

After going to the trouble and cost of making my own bait, there is still the fish to consider. After all that, they still may not actually eat my bait, and if they did, was it "my" bait, or just the fact they were in the right place at the right time, and would've eaten anything put in front of them on that particular day ??

Exactly right.

I’m about to start tench fishing and I know my bait (the boilie mentioned above) catches lots of tench and carp - so if I put it in the right place I will catch some.

If I design a new bait, my naturally negative mind set will tell me it’s no good when I blank (regardless of the fact that I sat in the wrong swim!).

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Thanks for all the tips and recipes folks, very kind to divulge them. But that's not quite what I had in mind. To me, that is just using someone else's recipe to roll boilies. I'd want to make my own mix up from scratch, including mixing different flavours together. Hence the 6 pick and mix flavours I'd put in JBs basket. The 6 I'd chosen would give me a combination of spicy, sweet, fishy. Out of those, I'd put them together to create my own flavour profile.

Simon You asked yourself “what base mix? What flavour?”
I just gave you afew recipes I know that work. They are not mine and they don’t have to be yours but they’ll be useful as a guide.

Regarding flavour combinations….id be careful and talk to John. He’s very responsive to emails. Some work together and some not.

Anyway you’ve got the information so it’s up to you.

 

[Kevin Brown]

Thanks for all the tips and recipes folks, very kind to divulge them. But that's not quite what I had in mind. To me, that is just using someone else's recipe to roll boilies. I'd want to make my own mix up from scratch, including mixing different flavours together. Hence the 6 pick and mix flavours I'd put in JBs basket. The 6 I'd chosen would give me a combination of spicy, sweet, fishy. Out of those, I'd put them together to create my own flavour profile.

To start from scratch with your own base mix your just making life hard for yourself , if you want individuality just pick two or three flavours and blend them , maybe add some salmon oil or yeast extract , consult with John first though .

Regarding prebaiting , I don’t think it’s necessary , I used his bait on 4 different rivers last year , it caught first time out on every one , sometimes first cast ! Then it just gets better the more you use it .

One river I’d hooked 5 barbel and landed 4 the season before , ( using spam and Hinders barbel bomb ) last year I hooked 26 barbel landing 25 ,a few variations between the two seasons but the main one was JBs bait .

I always use it with a Pva mesh bag , crumbling 4/5 boiles , use it kind of like an appetiser for the main course.

One thing I did notice was come winter , maggots nearly always out fished it , but I stupidly raised the flavour level by 0.2 mil and used frozen instead of fresh , small things make big changes as we all find out .

 

[Simon Archer]

Simon You asked yourself “what base mix? What flavour?”
I just gave you afew recipes I know that work. They are not mine and they don’t have to be yours but they’ll be useful as a guide.

Regarding flavour combinations….id be careful and talk to John. He’s very responsive to emails. Some work together and some not.

Anyway you’ve got the information so it’s up to you.

You did, Richard, and I thanked you and others for the info. It was more a rhetorical question TBH.

If I do go down the home made bait route, Id like it to be something I'd put together rather than one I'd used from somewhere else. I've watched lots of Jonh's YouTube videos and it's not difficult to work out which flavours work well with which flavours. His dose rate sheet is a massive help too. I suppose what I'm trying to work out is, after going to the trouble and cost of making my own bait, will it catch me more fish. Not sure there is an answer to that.

 

[Huanzhou Zhu]

You did, Richard, and I thanked you and others for the info. It was more a rhetorical question TBH.

If I do go down the home made bait route, Id like it to be something I'd put together rather than one I'd used from somewhere else. I've watched lots of Jonh's YouTube videos and it's not difficult to work out which flavours work well with which flavours. His dose rate sheet is a massive help too. I suppose what I'm trying to work out is, after going to the trouble and cost of making my own bait, will it catch me more fish. Not sure there is an answer to that.

Well, you will never know until you try it. But if you don’t fill confident or happy about what you’re doing, don’t do it. Fishing is all about fun, to some of us, making own bait is part of it, if you feel it is a huge trouble, again don’t do it.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

You did, Richard, and I thanked you and others for the info. It was more a rhetorical question TBH.

If I do go down the home made bait route, Id like it to be something I'd put together rather than one I'd used from somewhere else. I've watched lots of Jonh's YouTube videos and it's not difficult to work out which flavours work well with which flavours. His dose rate sheet is a massive help too. I suppose what I'm trying to work out is, after going to the trouble and cost of making my own bait, will it catch me more fish. Not sure there is an answer to that.

It’s a fair question and if the only thing you change is the bait on the hook then it’s likely you probably won’t with the venues you target.
It’s better bait but it’s not magic bait and you can’t catch what isn’t there.

However if you adopt the bait into an application and use its HNV to your advantage by establishing it into your swims on a more long term basis then yes I have no doubt you will catch more fish and that is exactly how I use them.

There’s 2 ways to use it effectively.

Like Kevin. He’s fishing waters that contain a reasonable number of fish but by no means easy. He fishes several waters and lets the hook bait and freebies on the day do the pulling. His catch returns are improved because his bait has better pulling power and they probably find it quicker. It may even be partially established as a known bait it depends on how often he fishes certain areas. it’s not likely going to work for you.

The other way which will work for you is to select afew chosen swims and start applying the bait. It’s very important you find a recipe and stick with it to absolute accuracy and that your flavours are very low. You’re not using the baits pulling power, you are creating a viable and tasty food source. Over flavour it and it becomes an attractive bait to find but not particularly nice to eat.

Then twice a week throughout the period you want to fish you put your bait in. Not loads because you don’t have loads of fish but enough for it to become recognized. 10-15 boilies 2-3 times every week and it doesn’t take long before you will notice results improve.

If you can’t commit to the long game on rivers like the dove or upper then I don’t think you’ll see much improvement over your usual likely over flavoured baits that you use now with more pulling power

 

[Julian Griffiths]

Is it worth it ??

My Carp fishing friend is going to start making some hook baits for himself and it's got me thinking of having a go myself, but not really sure it's worth it though. I don't use many boilies a season. I'm already up to £100 in my basket on John Bakers website. Trouble is, I have to do things right, I can't just roll a few sausages out and cut them up on the worktop, I'll end up getting the whole kit, I know I will, I always do.

A bag of off the shelf boilies isn't that expensive, less work and more than enough for me for the season. I understand it must be magic to catch a fish on home made bait, but I can see myself becoming a little obsessive with it.

Oh and everything Richard has outlined too. Great reply from him too!

Is it worth it ??

Great question that..... Is it worth it?

From my perspective it is, for the following reasons...

I actually enjoy the process of the small amounts I do. And by hand!
When you catch on a homemade that you've done, that is very satisfying!
The fact that your in control of what you decide to put in your bait is a plus for me too. Ie flavour levels tweaks etc.
I've actually combined two different base mixes before, another great little edge.

You don't have to buy expensive gear to roll baits. Small amounts are done by hand, & I've only rolled small sausages of varying sizes, and cut little nuggets off of them.
You can make different shapes too, something different from what's commercially available, and what everyone else is doing.

So I guess if you have time to do this, and are the type of person that would enjoy putting the ingredients together then yes I think it's worth it for yourself.

My problem is falling for trying different products as they come to sale.... But seriously just stick to one receipe, and lower the flavour levels & swao fish oils for veg oil in winter. Or the amount thrown in for freebies during the winter etc.

Hope that helps

 

[Chris Thomson]

MIlk protein mix , does cost but needs little amounts

 

[Julian Griffiths]

Simon You asked yourself “what base mix? What flavour?”
I just gave you afew recipes I know that work. They are not mine and they don’t have to be yours but they’ll be useful as a guide.

Regarding flavour combinations….id be careful and talk to John. He’s very responsive to emails. Some work together and some not.

Anyway you’ve got the information so it’s up to you.

I agree. John is a big help!

 

[Richard Isaacs]

The hardest thing i found to understand when i first started it, is the application of it. You have to drum it into your brain that you are not trying to attract a fish to your bait with flavor or scent like we all have done for many many years and still do.
If you’re going to do that, which does catch, then you may aswell buy pandemic.

The way I think of it is you are replacing the snail or worm or slug etc hopefully with something better.

Fish don’t need these natural food items to smell strong, in order to know they must find them. They are actively looking for them all day because they hold everything they need in their diet to be able to survive and I’d imagine they taste good too.
You can’t compete by giving them something they are not looking for but happen to find

Your playing god a little bit with HNV baits because they equally hold the correct proportions of goodness fish need and if flavoured correctly they’ll equally taste good.

If it’s established regularly and the fish like to eat it and recognize it as a food source, you’ve achieved something that others haven’t because they will be looking for your bait as a viable natural food source that they like to eat and that gives them the nutrients they need to survive. They’ll be ticking it off as part of the shopping list.

Snails
Worms
Tastef2
Slugs
Insects

 

[Julian Griffiths]

The hardest thing i found to understand when i first started it, is the application of it. You have to drum it into your brain that you are not trying to attract a fish to your bait with flavor or scent like we all have done for many many years and still do.
If you’re going to do that, which does catch, then you may aswell buy pandemic.

The way I think of it is you are replacing the snail or worm or slug etc hopefully with something better.

Fish don’t need these natural food items to smell strong, in order to know they must find them. They are actively looking for them all day because they hold everything they need in their diet to be able to survive and I’d imagine they taste good too.
You can’t compete by giving them something they are not looking for but happen to find

Your playing god a little bit with HNV baits because they equally hold the correct proportions of goodness fish need and if flavoured correctly they’ll equally taste good.

If it’s established regularly and the fish like to eat it and recognize it as a food source, you’ve achieved something that others haven’t because they will be looking for your bait as a viable natural food source that they like to eat and that gives them the nutrients they need to survive. They’ll be ticking it off as part of the shopping list.

Snails
Worms
Tastef2
Slugs
Insects

And as Richard importantly pointed out, very small amounts to be introduced if a campaign is being fished. On less well stocked waters I've seen some horrendous angling behaviour... So much so, that on one venue, I decided to fish with single hookbaits only. Which worked a dream!

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Oh. 1 last thing. This long term application isn’t an effective option on heavily fished runs waters like parts of the middle and tidal Trent.

The baits will work don’t get me wrong but if you can’t work an area or guarantee you’re going to get on the swims you’ve been working then it doesn’t work obviously. In these cases I’d up the flavour level slightly and work with pulling power to try and attract them to my baits.

At least you’ll be giving them something decent to eat rather than the trend of over oiled pellets and inert preserved boilies

 

[Kevin Brown]

And to think Fred Wilton who came up with the original idea of replacing the fish’s natural food items with a HNV boilie did it way back in the early seventies, way ahead of his time

 

[Damian Kimmins]

Simon, can I give you some advice?
Try searching the internet for effective base mix ingredients purchased from other than bait suppliers. Protein powder and a binder together with perhaps a coarse ingredient will produce a bait that will catch. All this flavour combination stuff is great and enjoyable if you have the money and time - a bit of experimenting here and there - it's fun, but it IS NOT necessary to find yourself having an enjoyable time catching making your own bait.

 

[Terry Harman]

Simon, can I give you some advice?
Try searching the internet for effective base mix ingredients purchased from other than bait suppliers. Protein powder and a binder together with perhaps a coarse ingredient will produce a bait that will catch. All this flavour combination stuff is great and enjoyable if you have the money and time - a bit of experimenting here and there - it's fun, but it IS NOT necessary to find yourself having an enjoyable time catching making your own bait.

Everything you need is here and not expensive at all

British Aqua Feeds

British Aqua Feeds is a major Bulk Feed Supplier to the UK, offering a range of Aquatic Feeds and Bait ingredients, Powders, Liquids, Oils & Additives

www.britishaquafeeds.com

 

[Simon Archer]

I did type "boilie base mix" into google, and they were one of the ones I looked at. AA baits was another. Trent baits also.

Unfortunately we have to buy such a large amount.

 

[Kevin Brown]

Here you go the man himself speaking today

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[Gavin Burt]

I started using JB baits last year and had 2 barbel over two sessions on the Warks Avon.

The main reasons I use it are as follows:
- I can whip up a 1-egg mix in about 15minutes meaning the bait is as fresh as it can be when I use it
- I’m 95% confident that no one else is using the same bait as me

JB is super helpful and will respond to emails for advice.

His flavours (search 4 is what I caught on) excellent and you need to use such little in volume that they last an age.

His base mixes are expensive and the weight of those is that makes the P&P expensive too.

Bait making is great fun and nothing better than using / catching on your own bait. You don’t need a rolling table / gun unless you plan on making hundreds of bookies in one go.

In my experience a couple of dozen boilies will last me a session on the river.