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C4 - Dirty Business

Having watched all 3 episodes of Dirty Business it seems clear to me that Thatcher made a basic error is pushing for privatisation.
She underestimated human greed.
Do any of you on this site truly believe that the foreign Hedge Fund Companies and Investment Corporations based overseas are REALLY interested in UK water quality?
Do you REALLY think that the CEO's earning £450,000 PLUS bonuses are interested in UK water quality?
And do you REALLY believe that these corporations are going to spend a single penny of their profits into re-investing in the network?
If so you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
Greed is what drives these Co's and the hierarchy.
Sorry to be brutal and perhaps a tad (?) cynical but that's how it is.
The tragic human cost of privatisation is a scandal and the fact that no-one has been charged with manslaughter is a disgrace, but "money talks" as the saying goes.
Rant over
 
Paul Bullinger said:
Having watched all 3 episodes of Dirty Business it seems clear to me that Thatcher made a basic error is pushing for privatisation.
She underestimated human greed.
Do any of you on this site truly believe that the foreign Hedge Fund Companies and Investment Corporations based overseas are REALLY interested in UK water quality?
Do you REALLY think that the CEO's earning £450,000 PLUS bonuses are interested in UK water quality?
And do you REALLY believe that these corporations are going to spend a single penny of their profits into re-investing in the network?
If so you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
Greed is what drives these Co's and the hierarchy.
Sorry to be brutal and perhaps a tad (?) cynical but that's how it is.
The tragic human cost of privatisation is a scandal and the fact that no-one has been charged with manslaughter is a disgrace, but "money talks" as the saying goes.
Rant over
Click to expand...
And if you want some light bedtime reading Paul then try the minutes from the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, dated 14th March 2023 HC221.
 
I think the point Andrew is getting at, is the only country with a “fully privatised system” in the world is the uk which has the fifth worse water quality in Europe and all of the other countries with publicly owned or a majority public ownership have much higher water quality than ours.
 
Watched all the episodes and found myself getting angrier with each incidence of profit before everything. The Environment Agency's collusion with the water companies over (non)regulation is sickening. I just hope that the general public viewers have been as affected and demand action. This government has decided to effectively re-nationalise the railway network, the water and sewage network needs the same.
The Thames worker who was portrayed in the programmes made it clear that the continual get out regarding the age of the system is a lie. That may apply to the London sewer network, but the treatment works were kept up to date until privatisation.
 
Let us not forget that Scottish Water is nationalised and has been since 2002 and they have exactly the same problems with sewage discharge,water pollution and service issues as we have.
Whatever changes are made to the system of ownership it must be fit for purposes in that we have clean water, safe treatment of sewage the environment is safe for people and wildlife.
 
Tony Koziol said:
Let us not forget that Scottish Water is nationalised and has been since 2002 and they have exactly the same problems with sewage discharge,water pollution and service issues as we have.
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That's not correct. There is an issue in some catchments but this gets wildly exaggerated by those trying to defend the water companies.

Overall 67% of Scotlands rivers are assessed as being in good ecological condition. And a large proportion of those that are in poor condition is mainly down to forestry (acidification) and agriculture (diffuse pollution) such as the Solway.

In comparison, I think only 13% of English rivers are assessed as being in good condition and around 40% in Wales and 29% in NI.
 
Steve Roffey said:
Watched all the episodes and found myself getting angrier with each incidence of profit before everything. The Environment Agency's collusion with the water companies over (non)regulation is sickening. I just hope that the general public viewers have been as affected and demand action. This government has decided to effectively re-nationalise the railway network, the water and sewage network needs the same.
The Thames worker who was portrayed in the programmes made it clear that the continual get out regarding the age of the system is a lie. That may apply to the London sewer network, but the treatment works were kept up to date until privatisation.
Click to expand...
I am not sure I heard this correctly but on tv someone said water treatment plants had not increased their capacity this century. My earlier point about mass influx of users of water closets is imho strengthened. Secondly that dividends to shareholders of privatised water companies exceeds 170 billion. Wonder how many mp's had shares too.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
That's not correct. There is an issue in some catchments but this gets wildly exaggerated by those trying to defend the water companies.

Overall 67% of Scotlands rivers are assessed as being in good ecological condition. And a large proportion of those that are in poor condition is mainly down to forestry (acidification) and agriculture (diffuse pollution) such as the Solway.

In comparison, I think only 13% of English rivers are assessed as being in good condition and around 40% in Wales and 29% in NI.
Click to expand...
 
Joe Winstanley said:
That's not correct. There is an issue in some catchments but this gets wildly exaggerated by those trying to defend the water companies.

Overall 67% of Scotlands rivers are assessed as being in good ecological condition. And a large proportion of those that are in poor condition is mainly down to forestry (acidification) and agriculture (diffuse pollution) such as the Solway.

In comparison, I think only 13% of English rivers are assessed as being in good condition and around 40% in Wales and 29% in NI.
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Statistics remind me of that quote Joe "lies, damn lies and statistics"
I've read and heard enough statistics from the water companies and the EA to last more than a lifetime.
 
Tony Koziol said:
Statistics remind me of that quote Joe "lies, damn lies and statistics"
I've read and heard enough statistics from the water companies and the EA to last more than a lifetime.
Click to expand...
I agree that statistics can be misleading. But worth bearing in mind that the EA doesn't exist in Scotland, instead they have an organisation known as the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency (SEPA) which performs similar functions to the EA. While SEPA has endured some cuts in recent years, they have not been ravaged to anywhere near the same extent as the EA has in England e.g. 80% cut in real terms for environmental protection measures between 2010 and 2021.

With this in mind I would be more confident that the Water Framework Directive driven water quality assessments undertaken by SEPA are likely to be more robust and accurate.

A couple of other points to consider:

- Annual water bills in Scotland are around £110 per person cheaper than in England.

- The overall net debt of Scottish Water is £4bn which is in the form of low interest loans from the Scottish Govt. Compare this with the overall combined debt of the water companies in England and Wales which ballooned to a staggering £83bn in 2025! From what I understand a lot of that debt matures in the next 5 years which most likely means water bills will have to be increased significantly to cover the debt payments - what a shit show!
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I agree that statistics can be misleading. But worth bearing in mind that the EA doesn't exist in Scotland, instead they have an organisation known as the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency (SEPA) which performs similar functions to the EA. While SEPA has endured some cuts in recent years, they have not been ravaged to anywhere near the same extent as the EA has in England e.g. 80% cut in real terms for environmental protection measures between 2010 and 2021.

With this in mind I would be more confident that the Water Framework Directive driven water quality assessments undertaken by SEPA are likely to be more robust and accurate.

A couple of other points to consider:

- Annual water bills in Scotland are around £110 per person cheaper than in England.

- The overall net debt of Scottish Water is £4bn which is in the form of low interest loans from the Scottish Govt. Compare this with the overall combined debt of the water companies in England and Wales which ballooned to a staggering £83bn in 2025! From what I understand a lot of that debt matures in the next 5 years which most likely means water bills will have to be increased significantly to cover the debt payments - what a shit show!
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Late reply Joe just got back off the river....one dace.
Surfers against Sewage last year claimed that Scottish Water leaked raw Sewage up to 24,000 times into seas ,lochs and rivers.
Their live map shows SW are leaking into these waterways as we speak.
It is indeed a shit show....
 
Tony Koziol said:
Late reply Joe just got back off the river....one dace.
Surfers against Sewage last year claimed that Scottish Water leaked raw Sewage up to 24,000 times into seas ,lochs and rivers.
Their live map shows SW are leaking into these waterways as we speak.
It is indeed a shit show....
Click to expand...
I don't doubt that is true Tony. But compare that with over 480,000 in England in 2024 (no data available yet for 2025..).
 
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