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The 10%

Adrian Williams said:
All I said was that it makes a more interesting debate than the "which" threads. Where you get the idea from that I am offended by such threads I'm not sure, in fact if you choose to look back through some of those threads you will find I am a regular contributor an often chip in with my twopenneth.

Forums need people with fresh views to bring new ideas to the table, one might not agree with those ideas and that is what stimulates debate, surely that is the main purpose of a forum?
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I would agree with the sentiment Adrian but not that this thread was intended to do just that. Personally, I can't see what is fresh or new about trying to create definitions around ability etc. That, to some, might appear a little divisive. Still, the great thing about this forum is that you can choose to observe, contribute or ignore a thread. If we contribute, we can of course change a threads original direction. That I have noticed happens a lot. But it also happens in normal conversation.
 
I think it's an interesting topic and while the conditions are not great for barbel fishing a perfectly valid debate. To look at it as a divisive thread is imo not seeing the full picture.
I think at this juncture I should declare that I actually know Richard, he is a member of my lower Severn syndicate, but I will not let that cloud my ideas about what he says, the idea of a mate is you don't have to agree with his every word, you should be able to have differences and we do.
Having said that I think in this case his basic premise that some anglers stand head and shoulders above the herd is indisputable and I find it odd that some people are getting all prickly about it. In any other sporting pursuit people are more than willing to accept that there is a hierarchy and just get on with it, when did you ever hear the lads in the Sunday league pub team complain that they were in the 90% who would never be good enough to play in the leagues? They just do what they do and do it the best they can.

Angling is no different to any other sport, some are always going to be better than others and rise to the top, that might be through good genes, natural ability, hard work good training or a combination of all of them, The only difference between angling and any other sport is that as an angler you or I can go and fish the same matches as the top 10% and if we are lucky at the draw bag we might even win against them, but, one flash in the pan does not put you in the top 10%, to reach that lofty position you need to be consistently good which is where the likes of Marks, Nudd and Ringer excel, they produce the results week in week out and if, due to the vagrancy's of the draw bag, they don't win they will usually frame, even from an unfancied swim.

I have also noticed through this thread that several people seem to think Richard is trying to put himself in that 10%, if this is you then you should read the original post again as the way I see it he is absolutely not doing that. Quite right too, as, to quote an old naval saying, "he couldn't catch a dose of rose cottage in a Chinese brothel".
 
Adrian Williams said:
I think it's an interesting topic and while the conditions are not great for barbel fishing a perfectly valid debate. To look at it as a divisive thread is imo not seeing the full picture.
I think at this juncture I should declare that I actually know Richard, he is a member of my lower Severn syndicate, but I will not let that cloud my ideas about what he says, the idea of a mate is you don't have to agree with his every word, you should be able to have differences and we do.
Having said that I think in this case his basic premise that some anglers stand head and shoulders above the herd is indisputable and I find it odd that some people are getting all prickly about it. In any other sporting pursuit people are more than willing to accept that there is a hierarchy and just get on with it, when did you ever hear the lads in the Sunday league pub team complain that they were in the 90% who would never be good enough to play in the leagues? They just do what they do and do it the best they can.

Angling is no different to any other sport, some are always going to be better than others and rise to the top, that might be through good genes, natural ability, hard work good training or a combination of all of them, The only difference between angling and any other sport is that as an angler you or I can go and fish the same matches as the top 10% and if we are lucky at the draw bag we might even win against them, but, one flash in the pan does not put you in the top 10%, to reach that lofty position you need to be consistently good which is where the likes of Marks, Nudd and Ringer excel, they produce the results week in week out and if, due to the vagrancy's of the draw bag, they don't win they will usually frame, even from an unfancied swim.

I have also noticed through this thread that several people seem to think Richard is trying to put himself in that 10%, if this is you then you should read the original post again as the way I see it he is absolutely not doing that. Quite right too, as, to quote an old naval saying, "he couldn't catch a dose of rose cottage in a Chinese brothel".
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I suppose I am not sure what there is to debate or what is of genuine interest that requires wider, forum based, analysis, given its a universally accepted position. Except we are now of course debating whether or not the start of this thread constituted a genuinely debatable point. Of course, the measure of its interest to members will be the number of posts/views it receives. Also, the origin of this 10% elite point was a different thread-braid v mono and it was introduced in a very overbearing, arrogant and judgemental manner in my view (and that of many others based on the responses) and this did gave rise to a degree of prickliness. The term "lesser anglers" was introduced which is a little provacative and us red blooded fisherman are bound to puff out our chests and chins in protest. The whole thing was presented in such a way that it certainly left you with the impression that Richard was firmly putting himself within the top 10% and eager to ensure we readily consumed his more fact based wisdom.

I dont think anyone would argue that you have an elite group of people in any activity folk choose to apply themselves too. So whats the debate or bigger picture? I recall that Richard feels that it is the number of fish (or it may have been size) caught that ultimately determines if you are part of the 10% elite. Should we put this to the test and once the elite have been identified, change the forum rules such that only this group can contribute answers to questions posed-a sort of expert panel? That would deal with Richard's concern that many of us are running about with strange ideas about how to fish, ideas acquired by listening to the nonsense spouted by other lesser anglers.

Personally, as I said before, we all have the freedom to ignore, observe or contribute. I am more than happy to engage because it can be fun. Also, I am happy being a lesser angler because I am not defined by my angling skills and I dont need to make a living out of it. But I have had great advice from people on this forum which has helped my fishing-Graham Elliot to name but a few. I also have a lovely barbel rod built by Mr Gill which I enjoy staring at when I am frequently not catching fish. One day, I may even be able to give something positive back by sharing an expereicne or two.
 
Come to think of it Steve so are you. I remember in a back garden in Beds, Ade saying if his life depended on catching a fish he would ask you to do it for him. You and KCI are far and away the best anglers I know. But you are wrong about owt new me old mate. I and I bet you have nowt in my bag that was not there 45, in my case, years ago. In moments of lucidity I will grant you it’s made from better stuff, more accurate and easier to use these days. But what is new?
 
Steve Williams said:
Yes Kev there is...

Sadly it seems some are only on here for the bite they can produce....:rolleyes:, which is 'not new' its self Kev...

It won't last for long tho, it never does......;)


Steve
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Steve,

What ability do you have to "know" why people post on this site?

Do you not feel fishing would be all the poorer without a bit of banter?

If someone reading a post that is written with the tongue firmly in the cheek is "offended" is that the fault of the person posting it or the person reading it?

If the person posting uses a metaphor to expose what he feels is hypocrisy is that wrong?

If "niceness" rules on BFW why do you continually allow thinly veiled racist posts?
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
Steve,

What ability do you have to "know" why people post on this site?

Do you not feel fishing would be all the poorer without a bit of banter?

If someone reading a post that is written with the tongue firmly in the cheek is "offended" is that the fault of the person posting it or the person reading it?

If the person posting uses a metaphor to expose what he feels is hypocrisy is that wrong?

If "niceness" rules on BFW why do you continually allow thinly veiled racist posts?
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My dear Richard.

I have to say I'm disappointed in you.

I had you down as one of the wily old ones... yet a simple lump of meat, freelined on 15lb mono, with no combi rig in sight, and me not even one of the 10%, and I have you hooked, landed, weighed and returned before you even know it.....

My work here is done.....

Steve

Ray.... now THATS a wrench.....
 
Steve Williams said:
My dear Richard.

I have to say I'm disappointed in you.

I had you down as one of the wily old ones... yet a simple lump of meat, freelined on 15lb mono, with no combi rig in sight, and me not even one of the 10%, and I have you hooked, landed, weighed and returned before you even know it.....

My work here is done.....

Steve

Ray.... now THATS a wrench.....
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Scuba,

I am indeed hooked fair and square; however you have failed to take into account that you have had to present your bait far too close to a known snag to get the bite. As I know you to be a 10% angler, I am truly surprised that you are not on 30lb Power Pro. The stretch in your Daiwa Sensor 12lb (bulk spool that you purchased from Ebay 5 years ago) has ample stretch for me to retreat into the sticks and shed the hook. I intend to sulk in an undercut in the bank for a few days and let my ego recover fully before foraging again in the river of a thousand dreams looking for interesting morsels to pick up on. Good to see you are still the same old Scuba, you had me (and a few others) rather worried there for a minute,
 
Rhys Perry said:
Sadly I'm not lucky enough to understand it.
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Just do what I do Rhys...laugh when the others do and nod and smile a lot. It works most of the time.

I haven't understood anything since I turned up for my first day at school and found out that there were different toilets for the boys and the girls...it weren't like that in our 'ouse.

And it all went downhill from there :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
90% of anglers will have noted the warm front due later this week, but I bet only 10% will be on the banks when the rivers are rising!;)
 
I would love to be going out fishing this weekend but I'm visiting Birminghams Hamburg market on Thursday for street food and wheat beer, I'm at a Christmas do on Friday and another on Saturday. Life is just one big social whirl.

And the alternator has packed up on my van so somewhere I'm going to have to find time to replace that.
 
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