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Conversion to carbelist?!

Stephen Bond

Stephen Bond

Senior Member
I was thinking of writing this thread but a post in the Thames thread persuaded me it was time to do it.

Anyhow, I have fished the Thames for the past few seasons which is not the most prolific of rivers for the species. Growing up fishing this river, we tended to fish later in the summer thought the autumn with a roving approach, touch ledgering cheese or meat an hour or so in each swim during the evening. Sometimes we would have a chub or two, sometimes not.

Twenty five years on it seems I have fished long and hard in the same area, several late finishes or all nighters but only managed a single eel :mad: I have tried both the roving approach and the bait and wait routine. Elsewhere on the Thames I have managed a good few barbel but put in a good number of hours on the banks to get them. In between, there have been numerous blank hours and sessions, indeed a whole season without seeing the illusive Thames barbel grace my net. So, in this time I have been using the two rods and watching the tips approach. I figured two rods in the water doubles my chances, which is probably not quite correct but it does allow me to fish a couple of different areas or try a different bait.

Anyhow, this year I took a friend of mine to the river on the quest for his first (river) barbel. He is a fine angler but spends most of his time these days fishing lakes for carp and cats, often all weekend and a midweek session too. It was no surprise to see his approach was to fish with carp rods, buzzers, semi fixed rigs and a bed chair, shelter etc. I was happy to report that he caught his first river barbel our first night out after a screaming run in the early hours of the morning. We had a few more sessions on the river midweek until such point as he deemed sunset was too early as he doesn't like setting up in the dark. During those sessions he discussed the merits of his approach versus mine. The advantages of carp style being thus.

Not having to watch motionless tips for hours on end.

Not getting a stiff neck or bad back resulting from the above.

Not missing bites because of not watching the tips!

Being able to do other things whilst fishing without fear of the above.

Not going cross-eyed watching a pair of betalights in the darkness.

Being able to sleep and yet still be fishing.

Being wrapped up in a thermal sleeping bag rather than sitting in numerous layers and still feeling cold.


So before too long I managed to overcome any lasting prejudice and give it a go myself. Having never fished a (semi) fixed rig before it was a little strange at first. However, before too long I found myself able to do other things rather than watch the rod tips! It is nice to be on the banks but all too often I cannot enjoy the wildlife and surroundings that much as I need to keep watching for a bite! Also, I have a pile of unread books at home that I have been saving for the proper occasion and it seems like it might have arrived. Lastly, I can check my phone for weather updates, the odd email, eBay and indeed BFW :D Most importantly, I can get some sleep when one should indeed be sleeping. I can drive home safely rather than sleep deprived and drowsy. Moreover, I can put in the long hours than it seems this river often demands for any modicum of success. I can also do this with less guilt as I can tell the family that I too will be sleeping rather than just fishing and less sleeping when I should be with them after a session.

I did revert to my barbel rods for a couple of day sessions on the Derwent a few weeks back. However, they soon were taken out of the holdall and the 2.25lb carp rods returned for the next Thames session.

So what are my thoughts going on from this experience? Well, I might try and look out for a pair of alb test curve carp rods to fish with. The 2.25lb Daiwa pair I have certainly aren't poker stiff but I do miss something slightly softer in use, especially as I have been using braid mainline this season. I might even consider three rods in some of the bigger, more open swims when there is lower flows so as to triple my chances ;) I'd not consider it in the current conditions with more flow and much debris coming down as it would likely be more of a hassle than a benefit.

Do I miss any fish through them feeling the resistance and dropping the bait? Probably not any more than I have with the quiver tip and running rig approach or missed bites due to not paying attention. My friend's argument was that I would catch more fish with his approach and I certainly cannot argue that it isn't a possibility.

When the colder and higher water really arrives I'll likely travel light and use the tips on a running rig. In fact, I cannot see that in higher flows the carp style approach can really work at all?

So what are your thoughts and experiences with this approach? It certainly isn't necessary on small river or short local sessions. However, for long session on the bigger rivers (which in my case are not on my doorstep) it might be best?

Stephen
 
Interesting read Stephen.

I'm sure you will have those that come along and say its not 'fishing', but so long as you are enjoying yourself, causing no harm and breaking no rules, and probably more importantly if it fits in with your available fishing time, then its your choice and no one else's.

Interestingly, there was a case recently where an angler was prosecuted for sleeping while fishing, but not knowing the in's and out's of the case, I am not sure if there was another contributing factor to the prosecution.

I use to fish similar on the Lower Severn, and been on the bank for those extra hours quite often paid dividend.

These days, when I'm out all night, it tends to be for Zander or Eels.



Steve
 
Well, firstly I admire your resilience and perseverance. I think I would have switched my attentions to a different river or rivers by now, even if it meant more travelling. The carp style approach wouldn't appeal to me because I prefer the more scaled back, relatively simple approach (by comparison) but I can see where you are coming from. If you are fishing safely then it's just down to personal preference. I am not sure that a semi-fixed approach would necessarily catch you more fish and the same goes for the general carp type approach. However, you might naturally be increasing your chances simply by being able to comfortably spend longer on the bank.

I have never fished the Thames for barbel but it has always seemed fairly daunting until, I guess, you have built up the all important knowledge of where the fish reside.

Seems to me that you should give it a go, trial it for a good spell and assess your results and how you are enjoying the approach. Balancing this with some sessions on other rivers (Kennet/Loddon) as you may do already would be good for a bit of variety and may be even a fish or two.

I love the Kennet for the delicate and intimate approach but having fished the Wye for the fist time this year, it was quite liberating being able to lob a feeder far across the river.

Best of luck with it.
 
My thoughts?

That Carp fishing methods will catch fish on Rivers, and the use of sonar to locate fish will also add to the 'catch rate' too, But since when does catching Barbel or any fish need to have such an approach? The very reason I / we started fishing in the first place,was the excitement, whether it be a float dipping or perhaps a rod bending bite from a Barbel, to feel we need to approach such with an all out assault with alarms bivvies and carp rods is perhaps just a natural progress for the specimen angler, but for me I think I will happily watch my tip or float, either dip or wrench, it is why I do it.:)
 
Very interesting Stephen, but can't see why a "carp approach" means you have to use carp rods. Why not use your standard 1.75 TC barbel rods?
I nearly always fish off a buzzer these days as the older I get I tend to nod off more frequently. I use a silicon stop behind a weight, which is enough resistance to set a hook, but wont fix it, because the weight of the weight alone will slide it down the line.
 
I don't see why you need to use heavier rods just because of your methods. I use the same 1.5 rods regardless of method unless the Thames is pushing through, then I use the 2 lb rods that I bought primarily for fishing the Trent. The 1.5s are twin tips so I can either use a quiver tip or Avon tip, I can use a running rig or a semi fixed. Like Colin I'm happy to use alarms because as you say Thames barbel do not come along very often and constantly watching tips can be a tiring job.
 
Because of the amount of problems I have with rowers on the Thames I have been thinking of going down the buzzers/low rod tip carp style approach as well.

But I have always liked to see the rod tip bounce away on a take and always thought that letting the rod take the cushion of a Barbel hit there is less chance of losing my rod while on a pod etc?
 
Hi men,

It's just at one end of the fishing style compared to the way a lot of barbel anglers fish , but that's not wrong fella !. This style is only related to the type of venue , and amount of fish . EG , fishing a small carp runs water , compared to Savay !. As for the semi fixed lead carp type of rigs ?, over many years of me and Sue watching fish feeding over our baits whilst stalking , we have seen that the small Guru lead clips system have caught as many fish as running rigs , if not more , and have used it for many years .

Alarms ?, nothing different to someone dozing with a bait runner on , or even louder a centerpin ! . People should fish how they enjoy , as we bumped into people on a bit of river only 20ft wide , two man bivvi , the full works . It was as far removed from the style of fishing best suited to that swim / stretch , but they seemed happy ?. It's has its place in fishing bigger river , and as Rob Maylin quoted , " who are they to judge us when we are just having fun " ( might be miss quoting there :D ).

Hatter
 
Thanks for the post guys :)

Steve Williams said:
Interestingly, there was a case recently where an angler was prosecuted for sleeping while fishing, but not knowing the in's and out's of the case, I am not sure if there was another contributing factor to the prosecution.
Click to expand...

Steve, you'll probably find this of interest!

Carry on sleeping | Coarse Fishing News | Angling Times | Gofishing UK

Colin Bridger said:
Very interesting Stephen, but can't see why a "carp approach" means you have to use carp rods. Why not use your standard 1.75 TC barbel rods?
I nearly always fish off a buzzer these days as the older I get I tend to nod off more frequently. I use a silicon stop behind a weight, which is enough resistance to set a hook, but wont fix it, because the weight of the weight alone will slide it down the line.
Click to expand...

Colin, I have a pair of JW Young barbel rods. They are rated at 2lb which is fine on the Thames most of the season, save last January when there was an extra 6' of flood water. They would probably do but are likely a little over ringed (with small rings) for the heavier lines. Plus I was needing an excuse to replace my old ABU specimen 2.25lb rods which I broke the tips on both ambushing carp on the canal the other spring :D

Neil Depledge said:
I don't see why you need to use heavier rods just because of your methods. I use the same 1.5 rods regardless of method unless the Thames is pushing through, then I use the 2 lb rods that I bought primarily for fishing the Trent. The 1.5s are twin tips so I can either use a quiver tip or Avon tip, I can use a running rig or a semi fixed. Like Colin I'm happy to use alarms because as you say Thames barbel do not come along very often and constantly watching tips can be a tiring job.
Click to expand...

Neil, I generally use large Korum open feeders for my Thames fishing. Normal conditions 1 or 2oz does fine. However, add some water and 3 or 4oz is required. Flood fishing could require 5oz or more (which is commonly in use on the Trent). Pack the feeder with goodies and that adds another ounce or so. Also, there are one or two swims where the fish can be found towards the far bank. This is a 50 yard chuck. With the JW Young rods I was struggling to reach them with all the resistance of the small rings and thick mono. With the carp rods I have no problems.

Stephen
 
:)before i moved to the welsh valleys i used to frequently fish the thames
both for carp and barbel, i fished with alarms more than without finding it helped me by alerting me to the mostly long inactivity and also from late september onwards to tuck myself away comfortably under a winged umbrella or a korum type day shelter to get comfort out of the wind, this used to partially block my veiw of my rod tops at times but the shelter made it worthwhile so carbelling as some call it has its advantages in right circumstances, totally depends on bankside growth ect, like anything if it suits YOU then theres nothing wrong with the tactics as long as the rules:) allow it:)
 
Being an old curmudgeon who fishes in the style of Chris Yates I tend to fish only short sessions these days and still nearly always hold the rod. I cut my barbel teeth at Penton Hook in the early sixties when the barbel were plentiful but never reached double figures. Mk IV Carp rods were the heaviest we used, matched with Intrepid Elites or Mitchell 300s. We were a group of young 'Barbelcatchers', who modelled themselves on the late great Dick Walker.

I have several friends who fish long sessions and use modern techniques on Thames tributaries. They are very successful.

To sum up, each to his, or her own.

Best regards,

Hugo

 
Morning Stephen, having grown up fishing on the teme using a 1.4lb rod sweetcorn and luncheon meat I thought that covered most situations. Then I moved and started fishing the tidal trent and soon felt seriously out of my depth with its big tides and boulder strewn banks!! I now use some 2.8lb mark tunley rods with 8000 baitrunners and they are perfect. For a while I used 2lb rods and 10lb hook links but hooked a couple of fish which I could do nothing with and got smashed up. Maybe I'm a bit optimistic but when fishing the trent as it is at the moment I always feel that I'm in with a chance of a true giant and at least want to feel like I gave myself a chance if I'm lucky enough to hook one. As much as anything it's a fish welfare issue as you don't want to be leaving hooks or rigs in fish.
 
Steve Williams said:
Interesting read Stephen.

I'm sure you will have those that come along and say its not 'fishing', but so long as you are enjoying yourself, causing no harm and breaking no rules, and probably more importantly if it fits in with your available fishing time, then its your choice and no one else's.

Interestingly, there was a case recently where an angler was prosecuted for sleeping while fishing, but not knowing the in's and out's of the case, I am not sure if there was another contributing factor to the prosecution.

I use to fish similar on the Lower Severn, and been on the bank for those extra hours quite often paid dividend.

These days, when I'm out all night, it tends to be for Zander or Eels.



Steve
Click to expand...

Sleeping Angler Was 'In Van'

Asleep in a van and didn't rouse despite an EA chap fiddling with his alarms...plus no licence, refused to give details etc. long list of offences.

That's a relief! I love a doze with the line wrapped around my big toe.. I was worried then!
 
After i got my rod pulled in the other day daydreaming, i can 100% say im all for the use of bite alarms! ;-) Although i only use them on longer sessions or when fishing with a friend. If im doing a couple of hours on my own i have no distractions so just use a rest!
 
Alarms and baitrunners on the Trent , set baitrunner so it is one click away from the flow taking line and alarm low volume but sensitivity up , fish running rigs , sit and watch the day go by and usually slightest tap will result in the alarm giving a beep then watch the rid tip either allow them to take line or hit the bite , no lost rod
 
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