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Where have all Oxforshires barbel gone.

C

Colin Gordon

No Longer a Member
Where have all Oxfordshires barbel gone?

A genuine question, as the barbel in Oxfordshire have seemingly vanished from what was once considered a hot spot for barbel fishing; rivers Cherwell, Windrush, Evenlode, Thame and Thames now practically devoid of fish, moreover barbel.:mad:

Feel free to debate cos there ain't many left:eek: and I for one am concerned; is it otter predation, is it poor water quality, is it signal crayfish or am I just cr@p at catching barbel?????????


Please please help!:eek:(and if it is the latter in my list of possibilities, please tell me what I am doing so wrong; incorrect hair length, poor bait selection, bad choice of swim, banding my bait onto the hair not super glueing......)







This thread is posted especially for Dave G.;)
 
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what do the EA say, I'll be interested to know what they say.
i have no idea.
 
Colin Gordon said:
A genuine(ish):) question, as the barbel in Oxfordshire have seemingly vanished from what was once considered a hot spot for barbel fishing; rivers Cherwell, Windrush, Evenlode, Thame and Thames now practically devoid of fish, moreover barbel.:mad:

Feel free to debate cos there ain't many left:eek: and I for one am concerned; is it otter predation, is it poor water quality, is it signal crayfish or am I just cr@p at catching barbel?????????

Please please help!:eek:(and if it is the latter in my list of possibilities, please tell me what I am doing so wrong; incorrect hair length, poor bait selection, bad choice of swim, banding my bait onto the hair not super glueing......)

This thread is posted especially for Dave G.;)
Click to expand...

The BERLUDDY otters ave etamall...simples :D Either that, or the band on yer bait are playing to loud...sorry :eek: Actually, I have no idea Colin. I would think it is a combination of many things. It is years since I fished up there...I used to fish the Windrush and Thames at their confluence, when you bought your tickets at the Rose Revived pub, and it was CRAWLING with barbel and chub...several decent barbel in a day/night was the norm. The Windrush seemed to be more prolific, but the fish tended to be smaller...but that was the period between the early seventies and the early eighties, and it was noticeable that the numbers caught were dropping off towards the end of that time, so I dread to think what is like now if that trend continued.

However, if it is as bad as everyone seems to be saying in that area now, it certainly needs looking into doesn't it?...But what chance of that now, let alone anything being done about it, after the cuts just announced? Oh...and in case my answer disappoints in the expected area....in all the time I fished it (which I admit was not on a regular basis), I never saw ONE otter :D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Hi colin..Well mate were asking the same question down here in dorset and hamps regarding the Stour & Avon..The Stour has been losing its Barbel population at alarming rates when only five years ago it was prolific and now its a very hard struggle to even spot them let alone catch one!!!..Simply because the Mature Barbel population has crashed..:(
 
Its got to be down to fry recruitment.....

I would be looking at the likes of http://norfolkanglers.co.uk/ for inspiration.....


I'd probably be more than a little concerned that 'a n other' species hasn't moved in and taken the place of the Barbel tho.....
My club use to have a stretch of the Windrush, and there was talk of looking to take it back on again, but I cant see that happening any time soon.....


Steve
 
Colin, you may be interested to read this weeks Banbury Cake where the EA are smugly congratulating themselves on the resurgence of the otter. It is to be expected that many people will welcome the return of this animal but the self-satisfied, unctuous gloating of Graham Scholey (biodiversity expert, no less) and Paul Raven leave a bad taste in the mouth to all of us who know the truth about our counties rivers. They claim the resurgence of otters is all down to their hard work and efforts in making our rivers cleaner and healthier than they have ever been. I have written to the Cake to point out the reality and would urge other concerned Oxfordshire anglers to do the same.

This is not an anti-otter stance but a clarification of facts for non-angling readers of the paper.

I think this article was probably taken from a national so may well appear in other towns free newspapers
 
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Its very difficult to always determin the cause of such things. Most species are very finely balanced and it only takes a small change in something that may be undetectable to us for a population to crash.

The reverse is also true of course. 10 years ago I would have to travel 100 miles to see a buzzard from where I live in the East. Today I often see them through my living room window. Whys that then? somethings changed for them to extend their range so, but to my eye nothing has. On the other hand, there are no house sparrows in my village anymore, but the tree sparrow is everywhere.

Strange init.
 
Have any of you contacted any of the guys working very hard in the Upper Thames, who have carried out endless research and are carrying out major actions together with the big bad EA Fisheries department as the problem is well and truly known? Or is it just another case of raise the issue on here and hope someone else sees it and does something??

For info: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/news/106656.aspx
 
I'll try and reply to as many posts as me pea brain can cope with:

Steve, the whole Windrush isn't screwed, really the biggest problems are from Witney to Newbridge (the main barbel fishing areas), in fact if rent costs etc are justifiable within your club, I'd urge you to re-rent your old stretch as the river needs good responsible controlling clubs to aid its cause.

Alex, thanks for the heads up on EA propaganda in the local rag, I'll be joining you and email a letter of complaint, complete with facts to back up my claims.

Ian, Tony and Dave, I have been in talks with my local fisheries officer for a couple of years now and to no avail.
A typical question that I've posed:
The Cherwell pH level has risen from a stable 7.6 to a wobbing 8.13 over a decade, why when the soil type has remained constant, agricultural practices are said to be improved and there is so little weed growth that when it breaks down and rots, the ammonia produced would be negligible.
With that last sentense in mind; the nitrate and phosphate levels have made a steady increase annually for years.

EA response/reply, we'll try and find out....

All told, I can understand one or two species failing (cyclical) but this is every species, with perhaps one exception, the Thames seems to have an increasing population of perch.
Am I wrong in my assumption that if barbel numbers fall it would be expected to see roach numbers to rise? As I'm led to believe they directly compete for the same food?

I have plenty of theories plus evidence to back them up with but just don't where to take them to?

TBH I'm now at a loss as to where to go or what to do next???????
 
Hi men,

Ian, contacted them on a few occasions , and a few emails . Spoke on the phone, and got the feeling they were reading off a prepared piece of paper , that they were cringing as they were talking , that the person I was talking to was fresh from uni, not in the real world, did not see angling as a priority, and Deff see me as a pain in the arse moaning angler . Very proud of the time , money, and effort they had put into getting otters back into our rivers , and told me they were very committed to this. Remind me though, how much do people pay towards this at the post office when I'm getting my fishing licence?, or boaters pay when they punt up?.

Hatter
 
many years ago, i had some cracking perch from kennington wier(rose island) on a shared GXUAS ticket.
 
It would actually be barbel and dace which suffered from lack of gravel reds, not chub.................
 
Mark, that is dissapointing to hear, I will speak to our local fisheries guy, who actually started all the work up there when he was in Upper Thames region, I am sure he would be shocked to hear that........
 
Having fished in Oxfordshire most of my life with some seasons not fishing at all (kids, moving, job etc).

Since moving near the Windrush, I have basically been told do not bother wasting your time fishing for Barbel you won't get one, all the otters have had them.

That came from a senior member of the club that runs the stretch of the Windrush from Witney to near Newbridge.

Having fished the north part of the town, I have caught some fairly large chub this season, however an angler that has fished this stretch mentioned that most of the large chub have gone and all the barbel from the town stretches have gone.

Plenty of small fish, brown trout and have caught grayling from the stretch so can the water be too bad? Or is it a fact that otters cleared all the larger fish from the Windrush, where will they get their food source from next , the Thames or the eat as much as like buffet Richworth linear fisheries.
 
I fish the cherwell at Kidlington on the Gxudas stretch. I have not had a barbel there for 2 years but a friend had one last year. I also know of a couple of small ones 12'' size that came out this year.

There is much more weedgrowth in the stretch this year and a plentiful supply of roach, dace, perch and chub. All appear in good condition. The only species missing are the Barbel. It was always hard but I always had some!

I have seen no evidence of otter kills through out the stretch. The landowner says that very occasionally an otter passes through but there is no evidence of them staying.

The river seems in good nick to me with good sized chub present. If it was otters the chub would also be gone!

In my opinion the barbel went after the 2007 summer floods. Thats my theory anyway!
 
Thames Barbel

I've discussed this subject at length with a very knowledgable long standing lock keeper on the upper river. Turned out he was a keen fisherman and had caught Barbel from his own weirpool anumber of years ago.

He did not think the weir today held any number of Barbel at all if any.

His view was that the numbers had declined as a result of large scale dredging through the 70/80's, in many areas he claimed the gravel was removed from the river taking the river bed down to the clay underneath. Following this Natural recruitment was difficult and numbers have steadily declined ever since.
You may be aware of some token efforts to to redress the situation, the upper thames barbel project introduced thousands of young fish a few years ago and artificially created two gravel spawning grounds, one at cricklade if i remember correctly.

The other interest of the lock keeper was Otters, he was the first to photograph an otter back in the Thames via motion sensor cameras which he still monitors. He was very knowledgable on the subject and his evidence suggested their populations on the main river were still very low due to the amount of disturbance from boats etc, in fact on his section he hadn't collected any evidence of any otters this year. He was clear that the numbers on the river would have no significant effect on the Barbel population and that the numerous crayfish had become the favoured food of the otters.
Clearly that applies to the main river and may not be the case on quieter tributaries like the Windrush.

Ok ready for the lynching from the otter hounds.
Stewart
 
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