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Water temp.

C

Colin Gordon

No Longer a Member
Does anyone know a rough guide line figure at which temp a played out barbel may start to experience excessive distress and struggle to recover.
While I know its not all about water temp, lots of other variables involved, is there a recognised point where problems are more likely to occur?
 
Cheers Dave, had to google that into new money terms 18.34'c, seems reasonable, think I'll stick with the tench for a bit longer.
 
It seems that either nobody knows or nobody cares Colin ! I personally avoid June/July especially if water levels/oxygen content are low.
 
Simon Lush said:
It seems that either nobody knows or nobody cares Colin ! I personally avoid June/July especially if water levels/oxygen content are low.
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Not a bad idea Simon. Water temperatures rise and fall rapidly however, and as opening and closing a fishery in response to varying temperatures is largely unworkable, one fishery I am a member of has agreed that 68 degrees is the cut-off point above which members are expected not to fish for barbel. I think the old Adams Mill syndicate and some Cemex fisheries followed a similar rule.
 
All good sense that Chris, shame it needs a rule to enforce it though ! June/ July gives them a chance to recover some condition after spawning and often coincides with poor water conditions and vowed long ago that if i had to spend long periods of time recovering barbel properly that i shouldn't be fishing for em.
 
Chris Turnbull said:
Not a bad idea Simon. Water temperatures rise and fall rapidly however, and as opening and closing a fishery in response to varying temperatures is largely unworkable, one fishery I am a member of has agreed that 68 degrees is the cut-off point above which members are expected not to fish for barbel. I think the old Adams Mill syndicate and some Cemex fisheries followed a similar rule.
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not far out then...:D
 
Water temperatures are one thing but dissolved oxygen levels are another so it's worth remembering that barbel can sometimes struggle to go back in lower temps than this at any month of the summer. For this reason I prefer to only take barbel out of the water that I want to weigh and possibly photograph (for me this is usually 10lb+). By not getting them out the water, smaller fish usually swim off straight away after unhooking. As for the bigger ones, unhooking them in the water and then giving them a 10 minute rest in the landing net before weighing, etc. usually ensures that they are fit to go back quickly with little nursing required. A big landing net is of great help here, as it will allow them to sit upright in the water and find their balance. Obviously a 42 inch net is unpractical in really fast flowing water, but in more sedate rivers with big fish, a net of this size can get around the difficulties associated with having a big fish rolled up in a small net.

Despite these measure, Simon's policy of leaving the barbel alone throughout June and July is certainly worth everyone's consideration.
 
This is one of those issues that has always puzzlled me, much as it did while I was carping. Barbel are nearing the northern limits of their natural habitat range in England, with Yorkshire being about as far north as they wish to naturally venture within this country (Yes, I am from 'darn sarf'....but not ONE sarcastic comment is going to pass my lips here on that point :D)

Obviously then, their ideal habitat is in areas somewhat warmer than here...for instance they thrive in countries such as France and Spain (And even Malta I gather :eek:) That being so, and it also being a fact that disolved oxgen content is dependent on water temperature (amongst other things, I admit)...then why would they suffer during our warmer months, which are still considerably cooler than the norm in their prefered habitat?

Don't get me wrong here...I am not saying they do not suffer...I am just struggling to understand why they should, because it defies the logic. As I mentioned, I had similar thoughts when I was carping. Here in England, on a sunny day when temperatures got to 80F, the carp would be cruising around on the top sucking in oxygen and resisting most attempts to interest them in food. However, take a jaunt down to southern France, and guys were popping them out with no problems in temperatures well over 100F :eek:

Whats that all about then...garlic content in the water? :D:D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Dear Colin,

Water oxygen levels play a massive part and obviously high water temperature can affect those. One has to also consider deapth of water and water flow. For example: The Trent has an average depth of seven feet making it the deepest river in England so oxygen levels are maintained better than that of smaller more shallow rivers. Weir pools, especially very deep ones like Cromwell Weir (Collingham) will have a fairly good level of oxygen present and is one of the reasons why huge fish populations congregate in large weir pools during the hotter months.

Basically its a matter of common sense. I really dont want to sit out in the seering heat waiting for bites that rarely come in very hot weather? The fish probably wont come on the feed until dusk or after dark when the oxygen levels rise as the temperature grows cooler. Many barbel anglers I know simply dont fish for them until mid August when the summer is beginning to loose its heat. Many also dont start until September. Personally I fish for them when I know there is a real chance of good sport and that is always when the conditions coincide with higher oxygen levels.

This is attributed to the Lenntech site Colin .

The temperature effect
If water is too warm, there may not be enough oxygen in it. When there are too many bacteria or aquatic animal in the area, they may overpopulate, using DO (disolved oxygen) in great amounts.
Oxygen levels also can be reduced through overfertilization of water plants by run-off from farm fields containing phosphates and nitrates (the ingredients in fertilizers). Under these conditions, the numbers and size of water plants increase. Then, if the weather becomes cloudy for several days, respiring plants will use much of the available DO. When these plants die, they become food for bacteria, which in turn multiply and use large amounts of oxygen. And this depleting all the oxygen.
How much DO an aquatic organism needs depends upon its species, its physical state, water temperature, pollutants present, and more. Consequently, it’s impossible to accurately predict minimum DO levels for specific fish and aquatic animals. For example, at 5 oC (41 oF), trout use about 50-60 milligrams (mg) of oxygen per hour; at 25 oC (77 oF), they may need five or six times that amount. Fish are cold-blooded animals. They use more oxygen at higher temperatures because their metabolic rates increase.
Numerous scientific studies suggest that 4-5 parts per million (ppm) of DO is the minimum amount that will support a large, diverse fish population. The DO level in good fishing waters generally averages about 9.0 parts per million (ppm).


Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/why_the_oxygen_dissolved_is_important.htm#ixzz0t69DynEb

Regards,

Lee.
 
David, are the English barbel not a sub-species of the barbel gene pool of fish, derived from the Rhine and its old tributaries, strain Barbus barbus.

Where as the Mediterranean barbel being another sub-species, they have evolved and devoloped different traits and tolerances to suit their environmental needs better;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbel_(fish)
 
Colin Gordon said:
David, are the English barbel not a sub-species of the barbel gene pool of fish, derived from the Rhine and its old tributaries, strain Barbus barbus.

Where as the Mediterranean barbel being another sub-species, they have evolved and devoloped different traits and tolerances to suit their environmental needs better;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbel_(fish)
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Hi Colin,

I believe I am right in saying that although the species 'Barbus barbus' is the only one we have here in England, it is not confined to us, but is also widespread in other countries, and lives alongside the many other species and sub species that exist in those countries.

I did a quick search and came up with the link below...not the best, but I think it illustrates my point.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/mecol/2001/00000010/00000009/art01344
 
i think it comes down to just using abit of common sense really. when i catch a nice size barbel, i unhook it, and then rest it straight away whilst getting my weighing gear, unhooking mat, and camera ready. when the barbel is fit and ready in the net, then that's when i do the weighing and pictures. never had a problem with a barbel going back strong. obviously if a person gets the fish out straight away and does all of this without resting the fish first then that's when you're going to have problems. i feel it all comes down to the angler.
 
No David, France and most Europe yes but the several barbel of the Iberian peninsular are very different to Barbus barbus.

The pyrenees got in the way and the latest thoughts are that the barbel species of Spain actually came up from the middle East.

Of course if you go back far enough I am sure all fish were just one. :)
 
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