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using a lead clip (safely)-minimum weight for effective self-hooking

H

Howard Cooke

Senior Member
Quick question for those that might use a lead clip/bolt rig set up- what is the minimum weight you think you would need to ensure self hooking takes place and how short should the hook length be for optimum hooking? I am thinking of this rig in the context of fishing for very wary fish and wanting to give them virtually no time to inspect/drop a bait etc. The lead clip would be the mini variety and cut down to ensure the weight comes away with the slightest pressure.
 
Howard, these days the weight of the lead is irrelevent half the time its the shape on anything under a couple of ounces mate, a nice heavy hammer can alter a lead to your desired shape in a minute or so but dont hammer like mad just a few lightish taps with the hammer, if the fish are very wary are you going to disguise your leads, if the weight blends in with the bottom correctly then a 5in hooklink will get you the response you want but tinker with the length until right, if its snaggy or sharpish flint bottom or under bushes personally i would go for a lightish lead and cover it with suitaly coloured plasticine and blend it to the bottoms colour, good luck with the headaches mate:D
 
Hi men ,

Cant remember the last time me , Sue and James used anything else . The Guru clips are fantastic , and the small swivels supplied are suited to barbel fishing , but of course Korda etc make quality ones . Weight seemed not to really matter , as they know full well they have made a mistake :) , and turn away , the lead no mater what size follows keeping tension . It also gave us a marked improvement in landing fish in snaggy rocky swims , where a fish would move across a swim dragging leads into gullys etc , snagging the lead , but with the clip it lifted it clear of the bottom as it followed the fish downstream . It also helped with pva bag fishing , as the bag nicked onto the hook would normally pull line through some sort of swivel / run clip , separating the two by quiet a distance .

As you know we used to really love stalking / watching them , and after many many times watching them picking up baits , we would not see any reason to go back . Safety wise , easyier to lose the lead if caught up , as it has the right mechanics to slide off , rigs wise we still went for longish rigs , but then again we never caught much , so you can make your own mind up on that :D


hatter
 
Mark Anderson said:
Hi men ,

Cant remember the last time me , Sue and James used anything else . The Guru clips are fantastic , and the small swivels supplied are suited to barbel fishing , but of course Korda etc make quality ones . Weight seemed not to really matter , as they know full well they have made a mistake :) , and turn away , the lead no mater what size follows keeping tension . It also gave us a marked improvement in landing fish in snaggy rocky swims , where a fish would move across a swim dragging leads into gullys etc , snagging the lead , but with the clip it lifted it clear of the bottom as it followed the fish downstream . It also helped with pva bag fishing , as the bag nicked onto the hook would normally pull line through some sort of swivel / run clip , separating the two by quiet a distance .

As you know we used to really love stalking / watching them , and after many many times watching them picking up baits , we would not see any reason to go back . Safety wise , easyier to lose the lead if caught up , as it has the right mechanics to slide off , rigs wise we still went for longish rigs , but then again we never caught much , so you can make your own mind up on that :D


hatter
Click to expand...

Yes that's the sort of set up I was envisaging, but with a short/very short hook length and then incorporating a back lead if suitable for the swim.
 
I hate to say it... but you can learn an awful lot from the carp boys with these types of rig, a lot of what you need to consider is the environment you are fishing over, which will, by and large dictate the hooklength, obviously things like flow will have an impact on the weight required.
I do a fair bit of Carping these days, and tend to use square leads of about an ounce, (its a smallish water) and a hooklength of around 8 inches over a mildly silty but reasonably clean bottom.
The lead invariably departs on the take, leaving you in direct un-encumbered contact with the fish....a 14" length of tungsten tubing above the lead clip completes the rig and keeps the line on the floor out of the way of the fish (and the hooklength)
Hope this helps....

Andy
 
Andy Bell said:
I hate to say it... but you can learn an awful lot from the carp boys with these types of rig, a lot of what you need to consider is the environment you are fishing over, which will, by and large dictate the hooklength, obviously things like flow will have an impact on the weight required.
I do a fair bit of Carping these days, and tend to use square leads of about an ounce, (its a smallish water) and a hooklength of around 8 inches over a mildly silty but reasonably clean bottom.
The lead invariably departs on the take, leaving you in direct un-encumbered contact with the fish....a 14" length of tungsten tubing above the lead clip completes the rig and keeps the line on the floor out of the way of the fish (and the hooklength)
Hope this helps....

Andy
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy. I am thinking of small river fishing and often it would be a margin swim, fishing over a gravel bottom. I had envisaged that a short hook length (no more than 6 inches) would be more effective especially when combined with a relatively heavy lead-just to aid the self hooking process. I don't really like the idea of using heavy leads however, so was wondering how light I could go without diminishing the self hooking effectiveness too much.
 
Howard try an ounce lead covered in plasticine mate add or subtract as you wish, i prefer flattening my leads before covering them, also if your fishing close to a bank it may pay you to use a 25m paste gun nozzle and use chops cut thinnish, a bit of trial and error hooking em or hair rigging them but once theyre on the bottom they dont move around much;)
 
Howard,
You could use a heavier lead, which does aid hooking, also for the type of fishing you describe you can do some very interesting things with critically balanced boillies (1/2 & 1/2 pop-up & normal) and some coated braid which really does make the rig self hooking....PM me if you want some more detailed info, or if there is more interest i'll try to post some pics with a how to do it for you......
 
Howard, no matter how long your hooklength is or how heavy your lead is its how the bait is presented on your hook that matters first.If you are getting 'donked' (one solid 2 inch tap on the rod top with no drag round ) you need to try a different presentation.Smaller hooks and baits can work as can using a line aligner.One of my go to conversion of 'donks' sorters is using a longshank hook with the boilie, a pop up, presented half way down the shank and a shot (balanced to the pop up) on the eye of the hook.What you are trying to do is make the hook sit at about 45 degrees with the eye on the bottom so that the hook enters the mouth before the bait.Its not nice looking but very effective.Very big barbel can pick up baits on a hair without getting hooked,i once watched a very big Adams mill fish pick up the bait of a very well known barbel angler, drag his rod round 4 feet,break off the hair not get hooked.Its weird sometimes fish will take any old rig and then others be ultra careful.
 
Mark, that sounds like a cruder version of the rig which I was suggesting, it certainly stops them ejecting the rig when they realise there is a hook there....
 
Yep Andy, i posted it and then saw you posted a minute before,it is crude looking but this gets them before they realise there is a hook.Sometimes the rod just shudders which i think is them trying to shake the hook out.
 
Andy Bell said:
Howard,
You could use a heavier lead, which does aid hooking, also for the type of fishing you describe you can do some very interesting things with critically balanced boillies (1/2 & 1/2 pop-up & normal) and some coated braid which really does make the rig self hooking....PM me if you want some more detailed info, or if there is more interest i'll try to post some pics with a how to do it for you......
Click to expand...

Yes pictures please! I lack any practical ability whatsoever so visuals are always good. Very intrigued by this rig.
 
Semi fixed / bolt leads, short hooklengths and short hairs (whether using pop ups or bottom baits) are a first class recipe for more chub! ;)
 
Interesting topic this is, a friend and I have been experimenting a bit on the same short section of river. He's been using 2-3oz semi fixed leads with short hooklengths, while I have been using the lightest possible lead and long combi hook lengths. The results: doesn't seem to be much difference! We've both caught about the same amount of fish, both of us have been getting both pre-warning bites and out of the blue rod wrenches. There are no rules it seems. The only predictable thing about barbel is that they're unpredictable.
 
What ive found is, any hungry fish in a swim, will take the bait, regardless of the rig/bait on offer. Barbel/chub, or even roach. The most important thing in my eyes is, putting your bait in an area, where the fish are likely to visit.
 
Something i think gives you an edge is sharpening your hooks. Even hooks straight out of the packet can be improved on!

Dave
 
In general, I would agree that if you can find the fish and put a half decent bait in front of them and they are hungry, then you ought to be in with a good chance of a bite. I do believe though that there is one key dynamic which if absent, can affect the behaviour of the fish: Competition. This is why my approach is very different on the Wye compared to the Kennet. A river containing a low stock of predominantly large fish might require a different approach or at least force you to have some rig options aimed at dealing with wary fish who have the time to inspect and consider the food items in front of them.

I recall a very experienced barbel angler telling me how on the Hampshire Avon, he witnessed barbel swimming mid-water in a circle over a baited area and it was clear they were ensuring the area was free of line and therefore safe.

So I am wondering if another rig to add to the armoury is one that gives the fish little or no opportunity to inspect and reject a bait.
 
Hi men ,

The rig your looking for , to give them little or no time to inspect and reject is ........ trotting :) , but I know the circumstances you are fishing in , with the little gaps / tight swims / low stock . Im sure the setup as described , with the added backlead ( slid down after casting ) is about the best you can do . I would add , try cutting a bait in half , back to back it ( butterfly they call it ) , or 3 smaller boillies on the hair , just something that jumbles up in their mouths a bit . Im sure your writings will keep us informed of your sessions ;)


Hatter
 
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