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Rod Maintenance.

Jon Frisby

Senior Member & Supporter
I have a couple of single leg guides that i want to replace on my Barbel rods. I can whip rings on no problem as i did a fair bit as a teenager, but i am not too up to date with the modern techniques.
The answer i need is after I whip the ring on, I want to use an epoxy resin over my whippings; do i just paint it on after whipping? Or do i still use cellulose dope as i did years ago, as prep for the epoxy?

Also which epoxy should i use? i need one that sets pretty quick as i dont have a rod turner, only handraulic.
Thanks in advance

Jon
 
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If you only have a couple of rings to do, try using Araldite,after you have whipped on the ring, just take either a small paint brush, or a cocktail stick, spread the two part mix ( after mixing together obviously ) over the whipping and turn by hand, if you use araldite rapid it will go off after about 10 mins, if you manage to get a bit of a bumpy finish, just hold blow it with a hairdryer , it will revert to its gloopy state, just re-brush and turn by hand again.
Hope this helps....
I use araldite when repairing / relpacing single rings on rods,it dries to a clear coating, and it saves on opening and mixing flexi-highbuild.

Dave
 
Thanks David, do or should i use cellulose dope or something different(modern) as a sealant for the whippings.
 
So called 'dope' is a solvent drying finish and will eventually go brittle. It will also prevent any subsequent coating applied as a top layer penetrating the whipping.
Modern day epoxy thread finishes are usually applied directly to the thread which then soak in and fill any voids between the blank and guide feet. This should give a very strong and stable fix.
Araldite is not plasticised to the degree of rod finishes, which depending on brand should flex and not crack.
If you wish to preserve the colour of a whipping then use NCP (no colour preserver) thread rather than a liquid colour preserver applied to standard nylon thread, colour preservers are generally water based and can lead to a weakness in bonding of any further coating. The downside of NCP threads are they look 'plasticy'.
For thread epoxy you can try one of the faster drying types (Threadmaster regular) - but this will take a couple of hours to 'gel'. Try applying in 2 or 3 thin coats (rather than a single dollop) to avoid sagging. Recoat within 24 hours.
Gelling time and viscosities of modern thread epoxies vary greatly depending on brand and type. 2 to 12 hours is around the average. You can usually get epoxies in 'Regular' or 'Lite' build.

I generally use 'Flexcoat' regular but also have the lite version, also have Threadmaster regular and lite and Prokote. There are other makes and brands.
Generally lite versions take longer to gel or set up than regular.

For small repair jobs then you can try cutting a couple of 'V' notches in a suitably sized cardboard box and rotating the workpiece every few minutes at the start and then increase this time accordingly as gelling takes place.
Work level, clean, warm and not too humid for good results.

Hope this helps,
Bob
 
Thanks very much Bob, bang on the point and as usual A1 advice which is very informative. After just checking out the new fuji SIC K series guides, which are "anti tangle", I am looking forward to some whipping later this week;).

Thanks again

Bob
 
Thanks for all your guidance Bob, i really appreciate it. The K guides look brilliant for my braid fishing, so good that i had a mad hour and took all my old kigan rings off, only leaving my MNST tip tops on.
Looking forward to some DIY reringing, but more than anything landing my first BArbel on them.

Thanks

Jon
 
MNST - well designed and specified rings. Like all the rings/guides with this frame pattern, both plain tube and those with extended whip on 'foot'.
Jon, you are welcome - if you need anymore tips then let me know.
Cheers
Bob
 
Bob, this is fairly basic stuff but how do you finish your whippings? I have tried laying a loop in and pulling the tag end back through but can never get the quality invisible finish the top builders achieve. Also how do you do the finish with a few turns of a different colour thread? that one has always puzzled me.
 
Hi Adrian,
Most basic things on rod building can be found here:
http://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/tips
General stuff on rings and finishing can be found within this:
http://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/part_4_rings_and_varnish

Getting a good finish in my experience will be reflected in the preparation - guide feet grinding, polishing etc, working clean and applying a few other techniques to maximise chances of a good result.

Applying a number of turns of different coloured thread is straightforward providing you want say greater than 5 turns, you can leave the initial start thread and trim off with the finish tag end. Cutting in the gap is difficult to achieve in this case, but a sharp scalpel or blade is your best friend here.
For a single turn of thread this involves trapping the thread for a number of turns in the main whipping and once the single turn is done then trapping again. Finish the ends as normal.

The picture below shows (although difficult to see) a whipping (cobalt) with 3 single turns of metallic blue thread with a single turns of cobalt thread in between.

BMNAG300.jpg


To avoid any whisps of thread then a quick flash with a flame can help minimise these showing through the finish.
Work clean and avoid (like the plague) anything that might contain silicone as this WILL give problems. Some embroidery threads (which some rod builders use) contain low levels of silicone to make them 'sewing and embroidery' friendly. However, without a further couple of preparation steps they can spell disaster on a rod.
Use a recognised make of rod whipping thread would be my advice here and pack or compact the whippings to avoid gaps.

Hope this helps,
Bob
 
Thanks Bob, I do a few foc repairs for clumsy mates every year, making a little gap in the whipping to cut off the tag end seems to be the step I'm missing, that 'wrinkle' and practice will certainly help me get a better finish.
 
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Whats the best grade Gudebrod yarn to use, i have some grade D, but whats the difference between that and grade A?
 
Nylon Threads
Grade A has a smaller diameter than Grade D.
Nominal information is:
A = 0.006mm diameter (0.1520") breaking strain 2.7lbs
D = 0.0104 mm (0.264") breaking strain 7.4lbs
Grade A more turns but 'smoother' finish. By this I mean that the highs and lows between individual turns may be less and may require less coats of epoxy to get an acceptable end result.
For freshwater rods I use A, but for some applications (eg double wraps, over wraps and thread art etc) you may need a combination of thicknesses.
Grade D is more suited to heavy (eg saltwater) rods.
At one time you could get A, B, C, D, E and EE grades. A and D are the most common. You may also find thread with a gauge number (the old Talbot thread) in which case gauge 30 is A and gauge 15 is D.

Standard nylon thread colours will darken considerably with the application of epoxy. You can use a colour preserver, but this may weaken the bond and integrity of the thread as time goes on (I'm not in favour). If you want to keep the colour and just use epoxy then use a NCP thread (no colour preserver required) but this tends to look flat and plasticy on the finished product.

Gudebrod went bust last year and products can be hard to find, but I understand that some former employees have now bought the company and we may see Gudebrod products back.
Gudebrod, IMO, is one of the best threads.

Bob
 
Thanks again Bob great advice. I was going to use some black Gudebrod for my whippings, but later decided on a different colour, which i found very hard to get, well as you said earlier Bob "Gudebrod went bust last year" and came across this site; http://www.rodbits.co.uk/ and after a quick phone call I had my whipping and everything else I needed.
 
Hi Jon,
Thanks for the link have ordered some bits from him before - good prices as well.
What colour did you get/want?
Cheers
Bob
 
I really wanted Burgundy and tried a few websites and made a few phone calls to no avail. I had ordered some epoxy with brushes mix caps and syringes from rodbits earlier in the week but when it arrived he had only sent the epoxy. A quick phone call to Dean the owner who was very nice, gave his apologies and promised he would send them first thing Monday. I asked him for some Burgundy whipping but all he had was Ruby Red, so i settled on that, which he gave me free of charge because of the mishap with the other items. Just hope its not too garish or i will go back to the black.

Jon
 
Jon,
I have some Gudebrod 'Garnet 206' A and also some 'Maroon 337' A in Nylon.
All colours in the nylon will darken markedly when epoxy is applied. I generally try to avoid using colour preserver.
Some colours will also result in the guide feet showing through, but on garnet and maroon it's minimal. Remember to grind the guide feet to get a smooth gradient where the guide meets the blank. I also buff to remove burrs and aid 'nudging' in the final alignment of the guides. Also reblack or dull the feet to avoid shiney bit show through.

Bob
 
Thanks again Bob for the great advice, it has been extremely helpful. If my Ruby red is too garish i will send you a pm.

Thanks
 
After 6 attempts putting my 'butt' ring on, taking in all of Bob's advice, making a few basic error's and there was a few. I finally have got back in the groove and got some rings on...... well chuffed.
 
You can do my Fox 15's if you want more pratice Jon:D
 
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