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Otters? Cormorants ? what about Eostrogen pollution

C

Chris Light

Member
Hi all , I have just returned to BFW after several years in the wilderness . Been musing through the site with particular interest in the lack of fish in our rivers. About 10 years ago I had a long chat with an american fishery scientist {or so he said}.It was on the Ellingham stretch of the Hants Avon. I had remarked to him that in twenty years of fishing the avon I had never caught a small barbel . His input was startling , his view was that in this country we have a massive problem with oestrogen being discharged into our rivers from water treatment sites . It seems that the oestogen used in this country is a cheap synthetic variety that is actually a large overdose taken by women to ensure they get the necessary amount , about 80% then ends up in the sewage works and eventually in the rivers .The result is adult fish , many of which have both sets of tackle and which are unable to breed.This would only happen below a water treatment outlet , and any fish above the uppermost plant would be unaffected . The further down the river and more and more plants would increase the level of oestrogen present and presumably increase the affect . Nightmare or what ?
 
Hi CHRIS,
It's a well known fact that small Barbel hardly get caught, here at Throop on the Dorset Stour we have a good amount of very small Barbel, they can be seen on many of the shallows.
The small Barbel are caught from time to time, these fall to very small baits such as maggots, but as you can imagine the small baits are usually take by the Minnows and Dace.
So to catch a very small Barbel is a privilege I have had this happen on quite a number of occasions, but that was not on Throop, they were caught on the Warwickshire Avon.
Keep trying, it really is a magical moment in fishing.
Brian.
 
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Caught a tiny barbel myself a month or so ago on the Kennet. On trotted maggot as I recall and it was no more than 9oz I would say. I was so excited that two other anglers fishing near by raced over and immediately got their camera phones out. You would have thought I had just broken the river record.

And even earlier in the season I caught a fish of around 1.5lb on pellet. All very good to see.
 
Chris. I could not agree with you more.

It's something I have been highlighting here, elsewhere and also to the EA and the Loddon Consultative on many occasions over a number of years.

Even the EA 's own research has indicated that fish can become asexual and fail to breed.

Yet.............companies still get away with nil or piddling fines for dumping even totally untreated waste into the rivers, especially in times of flood. It's heartbreaking.

Graham
 
Hi again,
I am still on the fishery at Throop, and would you believe it, a lady angler has just caught a tiny Barbel, just 6 inches long, so does that mean that there is a definate connection between the chemical and woman anglers.
Brian
 
Hi Chris, or should I say welcome back!
Oestrogen levels emmitted from stw's have been of some concern for a few years now, and rightly so,..but chub and barbel are still to be seen doing the business in the spring if you are pemmitted on the river and know where to look, not so sure about river roach though.
I reckon the spawn chomping signal crayfish is having more of a negative effect on recruitment in many of our rivers and streams.
I witnessed two 3/4 lb barbel taken on caster less than half a mile below Ellingham last month,..mind you, I don't know if they were Avon bred or stock fish,..I am not aware of any recent juvenile barbel introductions into the middle Avon, but I'm sure someone will put me right.
All the best
Dave T
 
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There is no treatment process in place on the majority of treatment works capable of stripping endocrine disruptors from effluent.
 
I would add that as far as I know the number of barbel in the Avon bred from fish farms would number only very few, if any.
 
Well I suppose thats good news then Damian. I was aware of the Stour barbel project but had not heard of anything similar on the Avon,..thanks for that

Dave T
 
Another Question/Discussion point.
Could the use of high oil pellet/high protein baits be responsible for the falling stocks of barbel in our water ways?
In the last 10 years these Baits have established themselves as the norm and this also corresponds with a down turn in barbel numbers especially on smaller rivers.
Coincidence or possible undetected problem?
 
You know my opinion !!
High oil 'Trout Pellets' are not intended for cyprinids and much like in humans a high fat diet is detrimental to health and well being. The knock on from that is the waste which needs to be absorbed into the Eco system !!
Not saying it is the only problem, but on small rivers like we fish I'm convinced that its contributed !!
 
How many fish would you suppose survive from the last Avon stocking?
 
Damian, ray walton could throw quite a bit of light on effluents and hormones
going right back to the 70s mate:)
 
Quite possible John, I know his knowledge is extensive on the subject, but it's been well documented elsewhere. I think countryfile dedicated a slot to it once. The plant needed to strip the disruptors from the effluent are not cheap at all. That said, working in the water treatment industry, I suspect that one day the water we put back will be better than what is there already.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
Quite possible John, I know his knowledge is extensive on the subject, but it's been well documented elsewhere. I think countryfile dedicated a slot to it once. The plant needed to strip the disruptors from the effluent are not cheap at all. That said, working in the water treatment industry, I suspect that one day the water we put back will be better than what is there already.
Click to expand...

Also working in water treatment I will argue this is a problem. If we put R.O. or 'pure' water into the rivers it is less fit for purpose. A fish keeper does not keep fish in water out of the tap. 30 years ago coloured rivers teamed with life. Now the emphasis is clear and sterile. Industrial waste (as we produce where I work), must be tightly controlled. Sewage should not be perceived as a 'river killer', it is the treatment that kills the river, over treatment, a PR exercise for the EA. If it looks clear we can fool people into believing we're great.
 
Andrew, I agree with much of what you say, in fact water coloured by certain discharge is probably better for the fish. But its the chemicals introduced, in the birth pill for example that is my main concern.

These are fairly recent changes and cant be compared with no doubt the lower levels then.

When you see womans tampax floating straight out of a water treatment plant it can't be good.

Grahamh
 
I quite agree Andrew. Talking to an operative on a southern water site on the south coast a few years ago, with the investment they had made in treating effluent in vast bubbling tanks (activated sludge lanes?), local shellfish populations had been decimated. I was shown a bottle of final effluent and you could not tell the difference between that and Evian. Maybe we will introduce minerals into it as a part of the treatment process?
 
graham, there was deformaties in barbel and sex changes in them on the river lea and kings weir right backinto the 70s, thats what i was trying to tell damian, Ray was deeply involved in the subject back then:)
 
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