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Invasive species，Prussian carp

Huanzhou Zhu

Huanzhou Zhu

Senior Member
Saw this news on angling times, the Prussian carp is found in UK now.
www.anglingtimes.co.uk

Look out for Prussian carp

SIGHTINGS of invasive Prussian carp in UK waters are being investigated by the...
www.anglingtimes.co.uk www.anglingtimes.co.uk

BTW, this is the most popular coarse fish to target in Asian, especially in China and Japan.

EA may not like it, some anglers may worry it will damage the eco system. But it really fine to catch them.
 
They be really fine to catch - so long as you stamp on them the minute they hit the bank!

The Gibel (Prussian carp) represents the biggest existential threat to the native Crucian carp. They have wrought havoc on crucian populations across Europe and will do so over here if they are not exterminated.

They are far more of a threat to crucians than goldfish due to a reproduction strategy known as gynogenesis. This means their eggs can be stimulated into life by another male cyprinid species without inheriting any of the characteristics from that male cyprinid - producing females which can all do the same. The male fish readily cross breed with crucians (and king carp) producing offspring that are devilishly difficult to distinguish from true crucian carp.
 
Saw photos of 3 Gibel caught in the lower Lea a couple of years ago seems they are there in numbers . The London docks also seem to have plenty. Like Ide why do we keep importing Alien species into the country. Why would any reputable fishery or dealer want to stock these aliens.
 
Like the poor old crucian really needs another existential threat…..

And then the general apathy of most angling clubs towards them.

I once suggested to one of the committee members of one of my clubs that they should consider removing the carp from one of their little pleasure fisheries and making a haven for Crucians, Tench, Rudd, roach. Make it like a classic old summer fishery…might even attract a few new members who see beyond carp.….might help just a little to support the long term survival of a few rapidly diminishing fish species.

He looked at me like I was an escaped lunatic and dismissed me with “Remove carp, you say? Yeah, that’s a stupid idea.”
 
Haydn Clarke said:
Like the poor old crucian really needs another existential threat…..

And then the general apathy of most angling clubs towards them.

I once suggested to one of the committee members of one of my clubs that they should consider removing the carp from one of their little pleasure fisheries and making a haven for Crucians, Tench, Rudd, roach. Make it like a classic old summer fishery…might even attract a few new members who see beyond carp.….might help just a little to support the long term survival of a few rapidly diminishing fish species.

He looked at me like I was an escaped lunatic and dismissed me with “Remove carp, you say? Yeah, that’s a stupid idea.”
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Sad isn't it.

Any fool can create a club lake stuffed with matched sized carp and F1's or a runs water full of doubles and 20's. But a 'classic old summer fishery' requires vision, planning and good fishery management. It's almost as if the club committees aren't up for the challenge.

I've never matched fish in my life, but I reckon if I did I would want to fish matches on venues that offered different challenges from week to week. What better test of skill than fishing for shy-biting crucians?
 
Trouble is, many lakes around are stuffed with carp
Some even remove "nuisance" fish.

I was looking forward to fishing one very large Cotswold lake this year, known for good tench

Only to be told the tench had been removed and more carp had been put in...

Here in Herefordshire I know of no lakes with crucian carp in.

Sad
 
I joined a new club this year, mainly on account of them having done what I’d previously suggested to the club mentioned above. Biggleswade & Hitchin have a small lake called Grace pond from which they have removed most of the predators, and as far as can be, the carp.

This, on Peter Rolfe’s, little website dedicated to the long term conservation of the Crucian https://www.crucians.org/index.php

… has earned BAHAC the status of B grade fishery:

B': 'Mixed fishery with stock of crucians' -- Current crucian stocks EA supplied, or from approved supplier, or have been photo-checked to assess their authenticity. No F1s and goldfish present. Carp interbreeding managed. High likelihood of catching crucians without identification (ID) problems.

It took me a while to find such a water near me in Bedfordshire and Grace lake is about the only one in the county that had pukka crucian carp stock, such is the rarity of these little fish now. It’s pleasing that there is at least one angling society local to me that can see the merit in doing this.
 
If you look back at advdrts jn the Fishing Gazette in the 1900's thede are several dealers selling everything from burbot to ide to prussian carp. The strange this is; around the same period the reference books concerning identifying species couldn't agree on what was a prussian carp and how it differed from a crucian or a gibel carp.

Where I am true crucian carp are very rare, but in many waters there are large stocks of what the French call carassins. The Latin name is the same as crucians, but they seem to be a brown goldfish.

Marans Carassin.jpg
 
It is my understanding that goldfish (Crassius auratus) were originally bred from wild gibel carp (Carassius gibelio), at least that was the opinion of my boss when I worked at a fish farm, and he knew his stuff. That was nearly 25 years ago so the thinking may have changed.
 
Crucians are amazing species, remarkably tough and resilient fish.

Fished for them in remote forests lakes in Sweden where they are able to survive in lakes that are frozen over for more than 6 months of the year. They bury themselves in the anaerobic peaty silt for months on end, producing ethanol to protect against the icy temps. Truly remarkable fish.

I'm told some of the crucians I was catching were over 70 years old. No doubting the origin of these old girls.
 

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Wow Joe, those are amazing crucians.
They are the most fantastic fish to catch on light gear, especially when giving really small indications on the float.
 
Mike Thompson said:
Wow Joe, those are amazing crucians.
They are the most fantastic fish to catch on light gear, especially when giving really small indications on the float.
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A dotted down pole float on a float rod and centre pin is ideal I find. But it's very hard work on the eyes I find. I'm usually seeing double after a few hours 😂

Hoping to get back to Sweden next summer, covid rules permitting. It's a fantastic country for anglers visit, there are literally lakes and ponds everywhere! Hoping to target Asp next time I go as well.
 
Graham Elliott said:
Trouble is, many lakes around are stuffed with carp
Some even remove "nuisance" fish.

I was looking forward to fishing one very large Cotswold lake this year, known for good tench

Only to be told the tench had been removed and more carp had been put in...

Here in Herefordshire I know of no lakes with crucian carp in.

Sad
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Similar experience with my childhood estate lake
Had a fantastic head of big Rudd , roach and some nice tench that had been in for as long as I can remember
Some carp lads took over the lease, netted the lake and swapped all the silver fish for a few big carp
Crying shame.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Crucians are amazing species, remarkably tough and resilient fish.

Fished for them in remote forests lakes in Sweden where they are able to survive in lakes that are frozen over for more than 6 months of the year. They bury themselves in the anaerobic peaty silt for months on end, producing ethanol to protect against the icy temps. Truly remarkable fish.

I'm told some of the crucians I was catching were over 70 years old. No doubting the origin of these old girls.
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They are absolutely stunning fish Joe !!
 
Joe Winstanley said:
They are one and the same Huanzhou. I think perhaps Prussian Carp is the older name for them?
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According to Peter Rolfe in his excellent book on Crucians "Crock of Gold" Prussian carp used to be used to describe a multitude of similar but different fish to Crucians. Such as Brown Goldfish and Crucian crosses. The thing about Crucians is they can exist in high and low back forms and readily hybridise with carp & goldfish, so knowing what you have caught can be hard. Amazing fish Joe I'm jealous 😍
 
Stephen Cotton said:
By the way there's some debate if Crucians are actually native to the UK. They may well have been imported in the middle ages alongside brown goldfish as another fish to breed for food (alongside carp) and also for ornamentation.
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The whole carp situation is clouded in mystery. We are told that the monks brought them in order to farm them. But what happened to the carp after the dissolution of the monasteries in 1636 to 41?

Juliana Berners in 1481 refers to carp in English rivers, but the text attributed to her is thought to have been translated from a French work so we cannot rely on that as proof of their existance. Leonard Mascall claimed to have been the first to introduce carp into England in his book of 1590 yet he had copied from Berner's book (he made mistakes that were later copied ad verbatim by Isaac Walton) so must have been aware of the carp fishing mentioned in Berner's book.

The Vikings are thought to have introduced tench to parts of the Med' in their 9th century expansion when they also invaded parts of England and western France and they had long standing overland trade routes to the far east where carp had been farmed from early times, so possibly they might have introduced them into European countries? Same could be said about the Romans. They carried food everywhere: rabbits, dormice. Why not carp?
 
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