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Identify this!

Darryl Davis

Darryl Davis

Senior Member
Lateral line count was 43 - could be Rudd
Golden yellow Eye - could be Rudd
Golden upper surface, lightening towards lower - which is consistent with Rudd in murky water.
Dorsal - Pelic fin alignment points to Rudd
Anal Fin points to Rudd
Complete absence of spawning marks suggests not bream hybrid????
But is it a Rudd-Bream Hybrid???
Marks are from Otter attack - fish swimming strongly in net before release.
I will remain quiet about the weight!
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some naughty rudd has had it away with a bream....lol
must of being drunk!!
 
Definately Rudd/Bream ! Saw quite a few of these in Ireland. My friend thought he'd caught the mother of all Rudd until I pointed out the Bream-Like anal fin :cool:
 
I'd guess at rudd/bream hybrid but it's notoriously hard to be anywhere close to being sure. Anal fin looks a little long, the shape is a little too deep and the mouth a little too low to be a true rudd. Doesn't mean it isn't though!;)
 
Well glad you all think its a Rudd-Bream Hybrid as at 4lb 11oz (and some) it breaks the UK Rudd record! Ripping take and fight on my standard Barbel gear
 
I once had a 4lb+ roach/bream hybrid. Thought it was the biggest roach in the universe until I opened the net.

Oddly enough most of the rudd/bream hybrids I've seen have been in a right mess, sometimes almost falling to bits as if they are not genetically viable.
 
I know the feeling Chris! I had a 'heart in the mouth' fight with a similar sized roach/bream hybrid on the river last season. I don't think i've ever felt so nervous while trying to land a fish! Made worse by the fact i've yet to land a 2lb+ river roach. Thought i'd broke the roach record until i parted the mesh and it revealed it's true identity! :D
 
Imagine if you had lost it..... and still thought it had been a roach. That would have been heart breaking!
 
I used to fish a pond not too far from Malton (Chris you know the one) that was full of Rudd/Bream hybrids. They were no where near as big as Darrell's fish but they were in tip top condition. I have never seen any before or since.

Conrad
 
Conrad Farlow said:
I used to fish a pond not too far from Malton (Chris you know the one) that was full of Rudd/Bream hybrids. They were no where near as big as Darrell's fish but they were in tip top condition. I have never seen any before or since.

Conrad
Click to expand...

Not been back for a while and not seen one of those from the place yet. Must bring some gear and give it another go sometime.;)
 
Agree...rudd/bream hybrid. [abdominal keel being the giveaway]
Chris perhaps you can answer this, would the result of a cross with a male rudd and female bream be the same as female rudd and male bream. My fairly extensive library doesn't explain this [or at least not found it].
Thanks

Mike
 
Mike, do you mean look the same? If so I don't have a clue.

I do know that with rudd/roach hybrids each fish tends to look a little different to the other with colours varying along with the shape of the lips and positioning of the fins. A true rudd is unmistakable.
 
Agree Chris
Some roach/rudd hybrids seem easy to spot but now and again one has to look closely to check. Mark Whittle did a nice article about this a few months ago in CAT. Roach/ bream and rudd/bream seem to vary quite a lot with sometimes bream being the dominant 'look' whilst you also see rudd being dominant as the photo in this thread. I wondered if it was due to the sexes eg the male genes being dominant and one gets a bream/rudd hybrid as opposed to a rudd/bream hybrid. Not sure I've explained myself well but you can see what I'm getting at.

Mike
 
In felines, a lion / tiger cross differs greatly depending on who species is the father. The offspring is either a liger or tiglon. Maybe the same is true with fish?
 
Mike, yes I understand but I really don't have a clue.

On the subject of identifying a true roach or rudd from a hybrid I personally I take the view that if it looks like a true rudd it is a rudd. That's hardly scientific I know, but if you know what a true rudd looks like it is pretty difficult to confuse one with an obvious hybrid.

Of course a potential problem arises here that you can have hybrids breeding with thoroughbreds and the offspring of these breeding again, at which point it might become virtually impossible to tell that this had occurred. This being the case, can you ever know that any roach or rudd you catch is 100% pure?...... It is a can of worms I know, but unless the water has a strong history of producing hybrids, I generally take the view that if it looks absolutely like the real thing I'll accept it as such.

Of course you have to be ruthlessly honest with yourself here!
 
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