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Hair length??

Jon Frisby

Jon Frisby

Senior Member & Supporter
Now, i am always looking to improve things and i dont for one one minute think there is a perfect rig.
I fished the early part of the season, using a 5mm hair as it had served me well in the past. However this year i have had 3 times the amount of hook pulls so far and i believe my hair length is the problem.
Also does the speed of the current affect the length of the hair aswell, as it's another thing that has been on my mind.

So in a nutshell; I am after your views on hair length, using a typical 14mm Boilie and if there is any variable that could affect it; ie bigger baits and speed of flow.

Many thanks

Jon
 
Started getting some hook pulls. Asked a well known angling journalist for advice and he told me to use a longer hair. I don't like long hairs for no better reason than I don't think they look right. However took the advice and the hook pulls stopped.
 
What sort of length do you use Shaun?

Most people seem to use a length so that the bottom of their bait touches the bend of the hook which is really quite short. Heard it said that they convert more chub bites by using a shorter hair.

Do you still catch chub or do they just rob your bait?

Trevor
 
I am of the belief that hookpulls are the result of too small a hook for the size of the bait on the hair.
My hairs are no longer than the bait I'm using, in other words the bait is off the back of the hook, not below.
This does convert more chub takes into catches, but I'm happy with that.
I generally use size 6 or 4 barbless for pellet or boilie ,and I can't remember the last hook pull I had!
 
I nearly always use a short hair which places the bait just off the shank. Worked for me very well over the years. Someone called it 'scorpion' hairing - the bait being the body and the hook the tail.
I also use curve shank hooks - in fact the old pattern Nash fang which was replaced. I got hold of quite a few old patterns for a bargain price at around £5 per 50 per lot. Size 8 is normally used. I've only had a couple of pulls over the years. Although I have some smaller sized old pattern Fangs (10's and 12's) if I want a smaller hook then the Fox SSC is good so far for small baits.
Hair rigging is not the only option (if baits are hard then maybe), side hooking can work very well.
Cheers
Bob
 
All i know is this, when carp fishing and i suffer hook pulls i use a longer hair and it works for me. Dont get to many hookpulls off barbel but if i was suffering i would go for a longer hair. Small hooks to me dont help but then again i usually use a big piece of steel when using meat (my usual approach), if on small baits then i will use a curved shank Fox ssc as these tend to stay in place well.
 
I think that the vogue for using long hooklinks (6ft plus) coupled with heavy feeders is the problem here.If you are using a hook that isn't balanced to the feeder and length of hooklink it's going to pull out.
 
Mike, you have a very valid point there and I agree with it a lot, additionally.

Hook pulls.

As a standard I have the bait just below the bend of the hook, working on the principal that if the fish has taken the bait it must pretty well have the hook point in it's mouth also.

Small hooks can have the effect of not penetrating far enough into the lips, resulting in them tearing out, especially in fast water.

My experiments with longer hairs has led to a number of fish being hooked outside of the mouth, that is hooked as they move away, and lead me to believe more missed bites will result with a longer hair.

Another key reason for hook pulls is a rod that is too powerful in the the top section, not allowing any play, this is amplified if braid is the main line.


I have used Raptor D7's hooks, generally size 8, for a number of seasons and would recommend them. Some hooks have a sharpened edge profile, they can rip out from fish as well.

Just some thoughts/views for the multiple reasons for hook pulls.

Graham
 
good thread
but it is really down to personal preference , like hooks ,
just to confuse the issue , i firmly believe that a smaller hook goes in easier and better and stays in !! i rarely use anything larger than a 12 . i use a hair length for pellets and boilies so that there is nearly 1cm between the bend and the start of the bait . i also hair rig meat but then i have the bait touching the bend .
graham is undoubtedly correct when he says that a too powerful rod is the cause of many hook pulls.

rich
 
.

Another thing to consider with hair rigs is the angle which the hair comes of the hook.

This can depend on how many whipping turns you give, and even the hooklength material. 10 turns with mono will not go as far down the shank as 10 turns with braid.

The further down you whip the hair the less aggressive an angle you get, I have found longer hairs work better with a shorter amount of whipping and that short hairs work better with whippings that go right down to the bend of the hook.

I now tend to favour a hair which is whipped right down the shank of the hook with a gap of about 5mm between the hook and bait.
 
I was getting a lot of hook pulls last season so I tried changing hooks. I was using Drennan Super Specialists and switched to both Korum S3 and Gamakatsu Wide Gape. I've probably caught about 25 barbel since the change and yet to have another hook pull. Nothing else has changed so either it was down to very bad luck or the hooks have made the difference.

I'm not an old hand at this, but I'd thought I'd throw in my experiences anyway.
 
Thank you very much for all your answers and i am sure there will be more. Its a very simple question with so many technical differences. I tried today with the longer hook length on the TT (Tidal Trent). In all every fish i hooked i landed apart from 2, which was my fault as the point was either masked or bent over. I also had quite a few good bites, taking line aswell, which i didnt hook, which i take it as the fish just got the bait in its mouth and ran. what i did find though using the long hair was the majority of the hook holds was in the scissors and a few about an inch down in the mouth. So in reflection, a very good day, in which nearly every fish, had to be either stopped or guiding away from a nasty snag, with a very high hooked and banked ratio.

Regards

Jon
 
I'm kind of with Graham on this in that I will use a hair long enough for the bait to sit off the bend of the hook or just below. I will also use a small piece of silicon tubing to hold the hair in place. That way I know that at all times the bait is exactly where I want it in relation to bend of the hook.
 
Fair point,Dr Paul.

Shrink tubing is a great way of stopping the bait wrapping around the hook point/eye.I have an ocd with rigs,developed over the years.I think it serves me well.

p.s there a couple of vacancies on the Barbel Society committee at present,i think you could make a difference.

regards

mike
 
Although I tend to use std hairlength (bait about 2mm beyond bend of hook), they do tend to ***** fish that are not fully taking the bait (ie an improved hooking rate). A longer hair (5mm plus gap) may not have the improved hook-up rate but usually acheives better hook-up to landing rates. I do use a longer hair if using multiple baits.
 
Darryl Davis said:
Although I tend to use std hairlength (bait about 2mm beyond bend of hook), they do tend to ***** fish that are not fully taking the bait (ie an improved hooking rate). A longer hair (5mm plus gap) may not have the improved hook-up rate but usually acheives better hook-up to landing rates. I do use a longer hair if using multiple baits.
Click to expand...
That about sums up my thought Darryl, i am looking now into the technical area now; such as line aligner etc.
 
Line aligner I use with braid - often more to ensure hair is right place.
Never bother when using fluoro or mno hooklengths.
 
Due to the number of hooks you go through on the Trent, it is a pain to use shrink tubing to achieve the line aligner affect.

I have been experimenting with curve shank hooks for a few months now. I have found i hook 99% of barbel bites and quite a few chub too although whether you think that's a good thing or not is up to you!

I have had no problems with the strength of ESPs but the straight hook point doesn't last long on the Trent.

The korda ones seem more resilient and are currently my hook of choice for combi rigs.

Experiment will continue!
 
Hi Jon, great thread with some interesting discussion.

I've also been putting more thought into my presentation this season and the results have been excellent. I like a short hair with the bait 4-5mm below the point. The hair position is something i've been using after watching one of the Korda DVDs and seeing Simon Scotts rigs. In a nutshell - with a bottom bait the hair needs to be almost directly in line with the point so it effectively makes the point the heaviest part of the hook which in turn sets it in the perfect position to catch the bottom lip when the fish picks up the bait. Having watched barbel picking up and ejecting my once standard long mono hooklinks and simple knotless hairs i switched to this and caught a number of good fish - not one got away with picking up the bait - that'll do for me!

After much experimentaition i've settled on this rig ( for now! ):

picture.php



I did use shrink tube to start with as a line aligner on the eye but after a conversation with a carp angling friend ( and a damn good one at that! ) he convinced me it's not needed ( as long as the eye is inturned and not straight it will flip anyway ) - i took his word as it is a pain to use on the bank and haven't looked back. In the picture you will see i use two 3mm sections of silicone tube to hold the hair in place - one would do but i have a habit of breaking them so the 2nd makes my rig last a bit longer. I prefer straight points on my hooks as i believe they catch hold better in the first instance - i spent many years on the Trent before moving NW and the Ribble is just as harsh, actually it's even worse than the Trent for wrecking hooks! Yes the points get damaged, but i look at it this way - if every fish i catch costs me a 35p hook then so be it - as long as i catch it in the first place! I'm convinced straight points help me do that and so will take the hit on my wallet!

For the techs out there:

Hook: Fox SSSP size 10
Hooklink: Korda Supernatural 18lb Weedy Green
Silicone Tube: Korda 0.75mm gravel brown

Bait would be 2 6mm elipse glued on to the loop on this version
 
Andrew Boyne said:
Hi Jon, great thread with some interesting discussion.

I've also been putting more thought into my presentation this season and the results have been excellent. I like a short hair with the bait 4-5mm below the point. The hair position is something i've been using after watching one of the Korda DVDs and seeing Simon Scotts rigs. In a nutshell - with a bottom bait the hair needs to be almost directly in line with the point so it effectively makes the point the heaviest part of the hook which in turn sets it in the perfect position to catch the bottom lip when the fish picks up the bait. Having watched barbel picking up and ejecting my once standard long mono hooklinks and simple knotless hairs i switched to this and caught a number of good fish - not one got away with picking up the bait - that'll do for me!

After much experimentaition i've settled on this rig ( for now! ):

picture.php



I did use shrink tube to start with as a line aligner on the eye but after a conversation with a carp angling friend ( and a damn good one at that! ) he convinced me it's not needed ( as long as the eye is inturned and not straight it will flip anyway ) - i took his word as it is a pain to use on the bank and haven't looked back. In the picture you will see i use two 3mm sections of silicone tube to hold the hair in place - one would do but i have a habit of breaking them so the 2nd makes my rig last a bit longer. I prefer straight points on my hooks as i believe they catch hold better in the first instance - i spent many years on the Trent before moving NW and the Ribble is just as harsh, actually it's even worse than the Trent for wrecking hooks! Yes the points get damaged, but i look at it this way - if every fish i catch costs me a 35p hook then so be it - as long as i catch it in the first place! I'm convinced straight points help me do that and so will take the hit on my wallet!

For the techs out there:

Hook: Fox SSSP size 10
Hooklink: Korda Supernatural 18lb Weedy Green
Silicone Tube: Korda 0.75mm gravel brown

Bait would be 2 6mm elipse glued on to the loop on this version
Click to expand...

TBH Andrew, i have never thought or seen that approach to a hair rig, but your justification has sold it for me; and this will get an outing on the TT next week

The forum works

Jon
 
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