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Crayfish

A

Andrew Burt

Senior Member
On another post a member mentioned buying a license to catch crayfish. Now I know our native species are endangered, not least by the signal crayfish. So my question is 'why do you need to pay the EA for a license to remove an invasive, alien species?'. Surely I am wrong in thinking it is because you can eat them and therefore some money can be made? Should catching them be encouraged? :confused:
 
I don't think the EA charge. Its more of a control thing so the Rivers aren't chock full of traps
 
Andrew Burt said:
On another post a member mentioned buying a license to catch crayfish. Now I know our native species are endangered, not least by the signal crayfish. So my question is 'why do you need to pay the EA for a license to remove an invasive, alien species?'. Surely I am wrong in thinking it is because you can eat them and therefore some money can be made? Should catching them be encouraged? :confused:
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Tricky one Andrew,..without doubt, the signal has been spread thoughout much of our river systems by unscrupulous individuals seeding rivers in order to make a few bob!
It is not a coincedence that when signals appear out of the blue on a water, the controlling club or owner often very soon recieve a request from a licensed trapper.
Juvenile crays are also heavily predated on by adults, given that the traps are designed to catch larger crays trapping can actually increase the survival rate of the youngsters. [ Bit like pike really ]
Also trapping surveys carried out on rivers in the Thames region have shown that trapping the critters is futile and has little or no effect on the population.
So we're bugg***d,..curse the doughnut who granted the import license!:mad:
 
When I fished the Kennet it was the only Thames tributary that was fishable for any length of time before crays became a nuisance. It was also the only river where I saw a regular trapper. So where these surveys were carried out I have no idea, but the Kennet positively benefitted in a big way from regular trapping. I have never seen a trapper or a trap on the Cherwell yet it is impossible to keep a bait in the water for more than two minutes, summer or winter, before the crays are on it. So despite what these "surveys" suggest, practical experience strongly suggests that trapping crayfish is the best, maybe the only way to control them.
 
We fish a small festival on lock kenn in Scotland. The year before we first went they took 11 tones or crayfish out to try controll them. Despite this it was still a hopeless task trying to fish a feeder, you'd get two at once, one on the feeder the other on your hook!
We don't yet have them on my local river but I really feel for those that do. These things are a nightmare
 
Alex Gowney said:
When I fished the Kennet it was the only Thames tributary that was fishable for any length of time before crays became a nuisance. It was also the only river where I saw a regular trapper. So where these surveys were carried out I have no idea, but the Kennet positively benefitted in a big way from regular trapping. I have never seen a trapper or a trap on the Cherwell yet it is impossible to keep a bait in the water for more than two minutes, summer or winter, before the crays are on it. So despite what these "surveys" suggest, practical experience strongly suggests that trapping crayfish is the best, maybe the only way to control them.
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I dissagree Alex, the Kennet still produces tons of crays to trapping, unless you trap a whole river system, non stop, which is massivley labour intensive and unrealistic, it is ultimatley useless as a solution.
As soon as you remove crays on a section of river and free up vacant burrows,..this cray real estate is soon taken up by crays from upstream and downstream overpopulated areas that flood into the new accomodation.
For this reason alone the EA state that trapping can encourage the migration of crays.
I used to enjoy fishing the river Mole but it is overrun with signals, DESPITE the fact that it has been intensivley trapped for the past 10 years!
 
I suspect that if all the crayfish caught in traps were removed sustained trapping would have some impact. The law states that this should be the case but the key question you have to consider is do the trappers do this or do they return the smaller crayfish to grow on to a size whereby they are saleable? I know which option my money is on!
 
Dave Taylor said:
I dissagree Alex, the Kennet still produces tons of crays to trapping, unless you trap a whole river system, non stop, which is massivley labour intensive and unrealistic, it is ultimatley useless as a solution.
As soon as you remove crays on a section of river and free up vacant burrows,..this cray real estate is soon taken up by crays from upstream and downstream overpopulated areas that flood into the new accomodation.
For this reason alone the EA state that trapping can encourage the migration of crays.
I used to enjoy fishing the river Mole but it is overrun with signals, DESPITE the fact that it has been intensivley trapped for the past 10 years!
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Disagree if you like Dave, but I am relating first hand, personal experience. The Kennet stretch I fished had a regular cray trapper and I was seldom bothered by crays. The Cherwell, where I have never seen a trapper, is impossible to fish due to crays. How do you explain that, if, as you say, trapping is useless? Also, I have no faith at all in what the EA conclude. they will say what suits their political agenda, irrespective of it's accurracy.
Your experience on the Mole leads you to a different conclusion than my experiences on the Kennet and Cherwell and I suppose we speak as we find.
 
Hi men,

I found that where the Kennet trapper was very active the fishing was not effected by the critters as much as some places . That's not to say when trapping stops it won't return with vengeance , but I was glad he was really regular , and often sat with us for a cuppa !.

Hatter
 
John Walker said:
the trappers earn a healthy living from crayfish
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As just about the only faction profiting from these vermin, commercial crayfish trappers should have to pay to the hilt for the ecological destruction they are benifiting from. River crayfish trapping should have been made illegal from the outset, given that the EA were aware of the negative aspects .....[seeding unpopulated streches of river, and spreading young and eggs where traps are illegaly used on different venues ] and the impossible job of policing.
If the EA had acted more responsibly and quickly to effectively control, charge for and police crayfish trapping,this may have restricted the rapid spread of the species, and would have generated a source of income from trappers to fund research.
Some nameless NRA or Water Authority officials are guilty of an enormous ecological cockup for ever allowing signals to be imported from Sweden to the UK, and are equally culpable of doing nothing when they began to spread- even in the face of scientific data showing the scale of the threat.
The problem is that we have only got the option of traps and nothing else,..God forbid that someone does'nt come up with some half-arsed biological 'remedy', but if anyone conciders that trapping is the way to erradicate crays they are sadly mistaken,..definetly one of the biggest man made eco-balls -ups of our times.
 
You seem totally convinced of the futility of trapping Dave, despite several people confirming that stretches of river they fished where trappers were operating were far less cray infested than stretches with no trappers. And no, I am not sadly mistaken, nor, I imagine, is Mark who found the same thing on the Kennet as I did. To suggest trappers should pay through the nose is a bit counter productive if they are the only ones making any effort to exercise some sort of control. It's a bit late to stop them spreading in the Thames areas now and a prolonged and sustained trapping exercise is exactly what's needed. You say it will do no good yet admit there is no alternative? Well Dave, I disagree entirely and think it would help a lot, based on my experiences of Thames tributaries.
Don't underestimate mans potential to eradicate any species!
 
One of my fears is when the Cotswold canal link is completed these things will charge across the Cotswolds, up the Severn, Avon and tributaries. Is there anything that will stop them? After reading the EA website I am as usual dismayed by their response and attitude. With the native crayfish in such a small amount of locations surely easing restrictions and actually encouraging angling clubs to enhance the habitat and trap these things could only be beneficial? I have fortunately been unaffected so far but fear my time will come. Walking the dog at Lechlade a few years ago shocked me. Dave has an excellent point reference people illegally spreading them. It seems like catch 22.
 
One of my local clubs on the River Mole are using the Crayfish Company to net the river this year - it'll be interesting to see what effect this has.
 
Alex Gowney said:
You seem totally convinced of the futility of trapping Dave, despite several people confirming that stretches of river they fished where trappers were operating were far less cray infested than stretches with no trappers. And no, I am not sadly mistaken, nor, I imagine, is Mark who found the same thing on the Kennet as I did. To suggest trappers should pay through the nose is a bit counter productive if they are the only ones making any effort to exercise some sort of control. It's a bit late to stop them spreading in the Thames areas now and a prolonged and sustained trapping exercise is exactly what's needed. You say it will do no good yet admit there is no alternative? Well Dave, I disagree entirely and think it would help a lot, based on my experiences of Thames tributaries.
Don't underestimate mans potential to eradicate any species!
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Sorry Alex, I find it laughable that you would think that commercial trappers are making an effort to control crays. Surley if they were as effective as you say they are they would be out of business in no time.
You seem to discount the research and surveys that have proved by trapping a section of river for a year or more, and emtying and weighing the pots every week that the amount of crays trapped has actually increased, sometimes fourfold a year on.
I have been involved in fishery work on the Wey for twenty years and have been approached a number of times by trappers seeking permission to trap the river, and have always refused their kind offer. Apart from a period of two years [7 years ago ] when crays were evident in the river, they have'nt been a problem,.. they have now dissappeared, but the adjacent and adjoining Wey Nav. is chocker with them, and the fruitless traps.
How can traps eradicate signals when they only catch some of the adults, have you seen how many baby crays a female carries around in May?
Even with a prolonged trapping programe, just leave one female in a sidestream and it all starts again.
 
Alex Gowney said:
To suggest trappers should pay through the nose is a bit counter productive if they are the only ones making any effort to exercise some sort of control.
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Most trappers are doing it commercially and have no interest in reducing numbers of crayfish - it would be tantamount to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. They have a vested interest in maintaining stocks, hence my previous comment that I doubt many crays too small for sale are removed but instead are returned to grow to a size where they become saleable.
 
Andrew Burt said:
One of my fears is when the Cotswold canal link is completed these things will charge across the Cotswolds, up the Severn, Avon and tributaries. Is there anything that will stop them? After reading the EA website I am as usual dismayed by their response and attitude. With the native crayfish in such a small amount of locations surely easing restrictions and actually encouraging angling clubs to enhance the habitat and trap these things could only be beneficial? I have fortunately been unaffected so far but fear my time will come. Walking the dog at Lechlade a few years ago shocked me. Dave has an excellent point reference people illegally spreading them. It seems like catch 22.
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Perhaps Alex is right Andrew,..maybe ,man will eradicate the signals,..by developing a plague in a laboratory that sorts them out,and hopefully nothing else!
I share your concerns that our uneffected river systems and catchments should be protected, but it seems almost inevitable that very few will escape.
The only hope is that crays don't find them attractive,..they are in the Hampshire Avon after being introduced into the valley in the eighties for farming. The bright spark who considered it safe to put them into a stillwater did'nt figure on them legging it to the nearest stream, and then to the river!
However, the Avons gravel substrate does not seem to their liking and they have failed to take a serious foothold. Hope I'm not tempting fate.
They seem to thrive in certain parts of a river, and appear absent a mile downstream, perhaps theres more to learn about these cursed crays than we realise.
 
Dave Taylor said:
Sorry Alex, I find it laughable that you would think that commercial trappers are making an effort to control crays. Surley if they were as effective as you say they are they would be out of business in no time.
You seem to discount the research and surveys that have proved by trapping a section of river for a year or more, and emtying and weighing the pots every week that the amount of crays trapped has actually increased, sometimes fourfold a year on.
I have been involved in fishery work on the Wey for twenty years and have been approached a number of times by trappers seeking permission to trap the river, and have always refused their kind offer. Apart from a period of two years [7 years ago ] when crays were evident in the river, they have'nt been a problem,.. they have now dissappeared, but the adjacent and adjoining Wey Nav. is chocker with them, and the fruitless traps.
How can traps eradicate signals when they only catch some of the adults, have you seen how many baby crays a female carries around in May?
Even with a prolonged trapping programe, just leave one female in a sidestream and it all starts again.
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Dave, I am not naieve enough to believe that commercial trappers have only anglers interests at heart, but what you are consistently ignoring is the fact that the Kennet is one river I and others fish who have found to be a lot more problem free from crays than rivers with no trappers operating. So without wishing to cross swords with you over scientific study or whatever fishery works you have carried out, I will repeat the claim that, IN MY EXPERIENCE trapping crays controls them to a far greater extent than leaving them alone. You have have obviously concluded differently in your own experience. So differing takes on a serious issue. I do understand the point that trappers may wish to maintain stocks but that is preferable, if the result is a fishable river like the Kennet, than a totally unfishable one like the Cherwell. I think a lot of people resent the trappers because it was obviously commercial interest that led to the introduction of signals in the first place. But unless someone comes up with a viable alternative it seems to be all there is.
 
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Hi men,

Interesting points made on this . Dave , are you saying that no trapping has sorted the problem on your bit of river ?, how do you think that works ?, could they be predating on each other , reducing their own numbers ?. Strange really , as a bit of water I fish has no trapping , never had trapping , and they are a real pain still !. Perhaps a club with two similar stretches could carry out an experiment on the effectiveness of both points of views .

Hatter
 
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