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Brackish Boris?

J

Jeff Collins

No Longer a Member
Having spent the last couple of seasons fishing the very lower Severn, I wondered how near the sea has anyone caught barbel and other sea going species. Personally I have had barbel and flatfish in the same sessions Ito would be interesting to hear from other areas.
 
Dave Taylor said:
http://totalseamagazine.com/latest-news/item/4897-shock-big-bass
Plenty of instances of barbel sharing with salties on the H Avon Jeff, .. haven't fished the Royalty for a while, but always remember mullet casually clipping my waders when trotting the lower.
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Yes the HA does do Barbel very low down the River, the Royalty is proof of that, but the Severn is a different kettle of fish, and I am very sceptical about anyBarbel below Gloucester.

However I would welcome any evidence to prove that they do exist in a Estuary such as the Severn.

Strange timing this as I am in the process of looking into Lower Lower Severn possibilities, but to put it into perspective I was speaking with the current Severn record holder last Friday, and he is currently on his 38th Lwr Severn barbel blank, he has done 80 odd!! and that is no lower than Tewkesbury, good dedicated angler to he is, my thinking is if he struggling then what hope is there for the rest?

Of course there are particular areas on the Lower that do contain Barbel, but any local would know that and would have no need to ask!
 
I suspect the Frampton claim must be a wind up Jeff, the river there is 1.5km wide, and I suspect more saltwater than brackish. It's also dangerous, with a huge tidal range.

My comment about Epney I wasn't sure about really, I'd say Minsterworth holds the most realistic chance of a Lower Lower fish.....but Frampton?.....

Sorry Jeff, I think not!
 
Found your (typical barbel) swim at Frampton.... and spotted the crease :)
 

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i have seen both carp and barbel leaving the harbour i seen and browsing on the sea bed , they seemed unperturbed by the bracksh/ salty water
 
Neil Smart said:
Yes the HA does do Barbel very low down the River, the Royalty is proof of that, but the Severn is a different kettle of fish, and I am very sceptical about anyBarbel below Gloucester.

However I would welcome any evidence to prove that they do exist in a Estuary such as the Severn.

Strange timing this as I am in the process of looking into Lower Lower Severn possibilities, but to put it into perspective I was speaking with the current Severn record holder last Friday, and he is currently on his 38th Lwr Severn barbel blank, he has done 80 odd!! and that is no lower than Tewkesbury, good dedicated angler to he is, my thinking is if he struggling then what hope is there for the rest?

Of course there are particular areas on the Lower that do contain Barbel, but any local would know that and would have no need to ask!
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I posted without realising Jeff was really referring to the Severn and not estuaries in general Neil. Interesting subject though,...back to osmoregulation again.:)
 
Dave Taylor said:
I posted without realising Jeff was really referring to the Severn and not estuaries in general Neil. Interesting subject though,...back to osmoregulation again.:)
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It is Dave, and I am doing some digging around, but you do get some reports of Barbel being caught below Tewkesbury, half the fun is actually trying for yourself, but life is really too short I guess.
The displacement of water in the Severn is huge, I think it is the second or so largest in the world, and with that you get a very different environment to the HA, the fact you can catch many types of coarse fish in Christchurch Harbour is fascinating. And yet the Severn coarse fish don't really appear until Gloucester some 30 miles or so from the mouth of the Severn.
 
Many moons ago a well known angler related to me his quest to discover barbel on the low parts of the river. Amusing tales of scary tide driven rapid river level fluctuations, grime and mud reduced potential attraction for me. Fair dos for his pioneering though ;-)
 
Further to the H. Avon thoughts, Ray noted the other day that the Barbel resident there are migrants from the D. Stour which share there estuary. So there must be an ability to pass into estuaries, as Carp do that are often seen in this area. Seeing that Barbel are close relations to Common Carp the following article may add some thoughts. The short of it that's relivant, is that at 12ppt salinity and tempreture of 14-19c there was a 50% mortality rate and tempretures over 28c with 12ppt caused 100% mortality over a 60 day period.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...Cyprinus_carpio_Linn_during_different_seasons
Whilst it's not directly relevant as individual spieces have different abilities to cope, Bull sharks and mollies being a good example of adaptation. It would be reasonable to extrapolate that anything more than 33% strength seawater, (average is around 36ppt) Barbel are unlikely to be anything other than transient if present and unlikely to be feeding. Less than 6ppt and things are getter more likely.
 
john care said:
i suspect the frampton claim must be a wind up jeff, the river there is 1.5km wide, and i suspect more saltwater than brackish. It's also dangerous, with a huge tidal range.

My comment about epney i wasn't sure about really, i'd say minsterworth holds the most realistic chance of a lower lower fish.....but frampton?.....

Sorry jeff, i think not!
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i have!!:)
 
Stephen...When experimenting on the brackish subject and how far down i could find barbel, I did take a few salinity tests (and viewed/obtained other salinity test readings for the estuary), plus i carried out other water quality tests when i was fishing the more effected tidal bits and sewage outfalls on the Royalty, mainly near the downstream boundary. One point i noticed was that i caught barbel from the downstream boundary area, but only on the rise of the tide in the evening. One of the barbel captured was recognised as a known upstream fish to me. That made me think that the barbel travelled much further down into the estuary on the low outgoing tide when the water in the estuary/quay becomes less brackish and more fresh. In my opinion, when the rising 'brackish' tide is coming in, the barbel are forced to move back upstream into the fresher river water. My thought at the time were that it might be that some frequently caught or damaged barbel might travel to the estuary area to aid recovery via the salt in the brackish water which could be beneficial. Some of the other barbel i caught from that area showed a good deal of scaring and healed damage and most were very dark in colour compared to others found and caught upstream in a more pristine condition.
 
Cheers for that information Ray, I suppose there is a chance they recognise the benefit of hypersalinity. Riding the sweet spot as the tide ebbs and flows maybe. It's an old and common trick for koi keepers. I still practice hyposalinity when quarantining reef fish as it's particularly useful to combat protazons and far less aggressive than copper.
 
No-one mentioned the Wye...The Wye has Barbel on the tidal reaches at Tintern! Not sure though, whether they are caught when the tide runs off (I think this was the case for a friend recently) or when it peaks... It does seem to make sense that they would move more with the river backing up and running off, but perhaps there would be food sources they love/need, which they search out, therefore no doubt they don`t mind an inquisitive adventure through unchartered waters!
 
And then there is the tidal Trent.......but of course as Neil stated, a slightly different kettle of fish, as the Severn (Bristol Channel) has the second highest tidal reach in the world.
 
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