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Barbel Decline Theories

Ian Crook

Ian Crook

Senior Member
Having read so many over the years, I posted one I haven't seen discussed on the Loddon thread, here it is for all:

How many recaptures and releases can a barbel survive, bearing in mind handling skills and care taken by all, if not killed, how many recaptures before fish become as wary as carp?? Take your average carp water where most fish come out once every 4-6 months, say a stretch has 25 barbel which a few years ago regularly got caught most days, twice some days because they couldn't resist pellets, now they are so wary they only get caught four times a year. The year's catch returns suddenly went from around 4000 working on 3 or 4 captures a week in season to 100, with no reduction whatsoever in numbers of fish

Food for thought? Or impossible to consider as there is nowhere else to point the blame?
 
Wary of pellets...maybe. What of all the other baits being used? If as a fish you've scoffed several hundred boilies before being caught, would you not think it's worth the risk of downing another, especially as you are going to be put back into the river after posing for a photograph? If they can work one thing out after repeat experiences surely they can work out the other?
 
I think some level of distortion in perception can take place resulting from personal fishing experiences, but not sure it means that it is manifestly wrong to conclude that certain rivers have suffered an actual and perhaps even acute decline.

I experienced my own distortion episode on the Kennet early last season. I walked a stretch I know well shortly before the season started and was amazed to find the river so clear. But I was horrified by the complete lack of fish. I slowly studied the riverbed and managed to see just one barbel. I feared the worst. It didn't help that for the first 6 weeks of the season I managed just one bite-a trout. My perspective then was that something catastrophic had occurred. I then completely changed my approach and thankfully started to catch until in fact my catch rate was better than the previous season. At the end of the season, I still came away thinking that there had been a decline but it wasn't anything like as severe as I had first imagined.
 
It's a fair point Crooky,it's interesting to hear other anglers thoughts re numbers of barbel in a particular stretch and doing my bailiff rounds on St Pats number of experienced anglers recon there about 200 fish on Upper and Lower whilst my best guess is more like 30 so if I'm right it's not hard to see them getting a hammering and feeding cautiously
 
So thirty years ago when you had to run for swims at first light on Upper Benyons, when you've watched the coach load walking upstream at Spur Road bridge at Throop overtake the coach load at School Bridge walking downstream, when the rivers had far more anglers, when night fishing rivers wasn't so common place, and when anglers used keepnets and didn't have unhooking mats, the barbel didn't die or become uncatchable.
 
On my local Bristol Avon I could walk a stretch first week of June no less than a mile and would see a hundred barbel. Now I might see 15 I'm not sure they are wary when it comes to spawning or feeding on my river there just not there anymore.
 
It is an interesting and valid point/theory indeed - one of many that all have their merits.
While for me on my local river, the catches have dropped to an appalling level - 3 or 4 fish a season instead of what used to be a day! However, there's about 7 miles of river between 2 weirs, with depths beyond being able to see the bottom in most areas. There's far fewer anglers fishing for them - used to be anything up to 20 cars parked in one spot on a Saturday, now there's rarely more than 3. Therefore less anglers = less hooks in the water = less barbel caught. They have always been hard to catch and bait shy on the stretch regardless.
However, where there always used to be barbel seen on the shallows, especially around spawning time, they're just not there any more. Could they be spawning in deeper water? In quieter areas where anglers don't venture to spot them? Ok so there is no denying that there's been a lot of brown furry creatures around, and there is the odd corpse seen on the bank, however if they'd eaten all the barbel I'd expect to see dozens of fish laying on the bank - not just barbel, but big chub, bream, carp, pike etc etc.
I just don't know where they've gone. My gut feeling is they're still around, just more widespread along the river. There's no doubt fewer seen on the gravel in the spring and indeed in landing nets. Maybe we've been sitting on a ticking time bomb and all the factors affecting the species has come to fruition at the same time; otters, habitat, environment, poor diet, poor recruitment. I do know that the river season can't come soon enough and I'm not going to give up..... at least I get some peace and quiet on the river now!
 
I honestly don't know the reason and most likely there are multiple reasons for their decline depending on the river but I think the decline is beyond dispute. Just too many of us have experienced it for it not to be true. The rivers that still do have a good head of fish are producing and the fish aren't shy and wary despite angling pressure, they compete for the bait.
 
Hi men ,

Lots of theory's , not sure how they hold up on the bits of deserted rivers me and Sue fished, with lack of pellets , lack of angling pressure , lack of recaptures , it must be a combo of lots of reasons , highlited by the return of a preditor that have not been on many rivers in the lifetime of some of the barbel we fished for .


Hatter
 
Hi men ,

Lots of theory's , not sure how they hold up on the bits of deserted rivers me and Sue fished, with lack of pellets , lack of angling pressure , lack of recaptures , it must be a combo of lots of reasons , their plight highlighted by the return of a preditor that have not been on many rivers in the lifetime of some of the barbel we fished for .


Hatter
 
Another good point Mark,so maybe when we are seeing to same results from so many different rivers and different scenarios there is one common denominator,the return of the otter.Difficult to argue against that conclusion
 
i believe it really is quite complex, but if you put an apex predator into an already struggling enviroment it isnt going to end well. Even the EA and Natural England have posted that otters have had a significant detrimental effect on fish stocks on some, particularly small, rivers. To them reasons unclear, to me small river easier for otters to find and dispatch big Barbel and pike
 
I don't completely buy the otter theory on ALL rivers, take the Loddon for example, otter present since around 2002-2003, no ground swell in numbers at all..... The otter population will be in 2nd or 3rd generation now, totally wild animals.

There are plenty of big barbel get caught but smaller ones are lacking it would appear.... Which kind of flies in the face of offers taking the larger specimens!!
 
I've never bought the mantra that barbel are "stupid" and chub are "cunning". I know which I find easier to catch.

I've dug up the following post from the RDAA Loddon forum going back to 2009 (and the incident was at least two years previously):


"I was fishing the river and a guy passed me on his way back to his car. He told me that he'd been watching some barbel. He saw them feeding, and tried putting a bait dropper full of corn in the margins. The fish, 3 barbel of which one was an obvious double, returned quickly and hoovered up the offerings. They then moved away. He put in another dropper full, and the fish returned again to clear the spot. After a few times doing this he put in the usual dropper full, then lowered in a grain with a hook buried in it. When the fish moved off every grain had gone, except the one on his line. He tried this another couple of times, with the same result, before concluding that it was a waste of time and deciding to go home!"

Presumably it's safe to assume these barbel haven't got any dafter in the intervening years. Angling pressure, why not the reason for the missing year classes, certainly is behind why we're seeing fewer on the bank. I think they're even getting cuter on the Wye than a few years ago.
 
Robert Richbell said:
i believe it really is quite complex, but if you put an apex predator into an already struggling enviroment it isnt going to end well. Even the EA and Natural England have posted that otters have had a significant detrimental effect on fish stocks on some, particularly small, rivers. To them reasons unclear, to me small river easier for otters to find and dispatch big Barbel and pike
Click to expand...

A great shame that they didn't stop to think if their headlong rush to reinstate the Otter would have any detrimental effect on the watery environment, stable door and horses?

If the EA and NE know that the Otter has reduced the fish stocks on some rivers perhaps they should be asking themselves why rivers that previously held good stocks of fish and Otters (pre fertiliser poisoning) are now in some areas largely devoid of the fish, couldn't be that all the rubbish allowed into our rivers has had the biggest effect could it?

Only this morning on the BBC some expert was telling the interviewer that the rivers in the UK were in very good condition, the none fishing public seeing this from a professor will believe it and the EA along with water authorities go on their merry way pumping allsorts into our rivers, oh how they must pray for rain and high water levels or is that just me being a cynical old so and so?
 
Ian Crook said:
I don't completely buy the otter theory on ALL rivers, take the Loddon for example, otter present since around 2002-2003, no ground swell in numbers at all..... The otter population will be in 2nd or 3rd generation now, totally wild animals.

There are plenty of big barbel get caught but smaller ones are lacking it would appear.... Which kind of flies in the face of offers taking the larger specimens!!
Click to expand...

Theres no doubt its not a 1 size fits all for the problems on our rivers. The thing that bothers me with the otter situation was historially otters had ,apparently, around a 15km or more stretch of river and apart from breeding largely solitary creatures. Although they are 3/4 generation they seem to be much more social in recent years so is that a learned trait from the captive otters being kept in pens next to each other? Also far more diurnal. This is personal observation and anecdotal not fact.
 
Robert Richbell said:
Theres no doubt its not a 1 size fits all for the problems on our rivers. The thing that bothers me with the otter situation was historially otters had ,apparently, around a 15km or more stretch of river and apart from breeding largely solitary creatures. Although they are 3/4 generation they seem to be much more social in recent years so is that a learned trait from the captive otters being kept in pens next to each other? Also far more diurnal. This is personal observation and anecdotal not fact.
Click to expand...

It's probably down to the massive larder at their disposal, an otter's "range" is dependant on available food. With the number of fisheries, gravel pits, etc along most rivers, food is plentiful so no big need to compete. If that food source diminishes would would soon see the otters battling over territory.
 
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