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Rod actions (again)

M

Mark Evans 2

Senior Member & Supporter
Hi all

So rods like the FS Tamer series and the Guru Speci rods feel soft and floppy when held.

When it comes to their actual power, do they have the same power as compared to rods that recover quicker and feel stiffer, like the Korum and Drennan range of rods?

I think despite feeling less soft, the Korum and Drennan range are still meant to be 'parabolic' or have a through action?

For softer rods like the Tamer and Guru rods, would you need to up in test curve to land on a rod that felt similar to what you might have previously had?

I settled on my Guru rods but I still think they feel heavy and I'm still not a fan of 12ft rods. Thinking of switching back to maybe a single FS Tamer 11ft 2lb for the new season (I tried their 12ft 1.75 before) or I've seen a older Lone Angler 12ft for sale.
 
Hi Mark.
Soft or more thru action rods actually put more pressure on the fish but make it easier for us the angler. Check our Mr Tunley's video below so power as you put it is something you might consider after hooking a fish. We want though a rod to be able to cast and there it depends on what weight and how far you need to go.


Some rods do feel heavy in the hand but then you get what you pay for usually so a better quality carbon blank which is thinner, lighter and just as strong. I've tried a few rods myself for mainly general river fishing (roach, chub), and more powerful versions for larger chub/barbel so I tend to like something which does bend and isn't a fast taper thing. Currently on Mr Tunleys Dark Carbon 1.75 and 2.5 versions which suit me for my more powerful range, but I also bought a Nytro rod recently for lighter work so for value for money they seem great.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is the Test Curve on a rod can be something which gives us anglers a sense of how much power it has but power is subjective. Power on the fish in terms of bending is different that Casting Power. In an ideal world we'd be able to go to a tackle shop and there would be a place to try out rods in anger, put on your likely weight for casting and give it a fling out to the desired distance. I don't know if manufacturers do fishing events of this type or whether tackle shops could arrange something where you can try out various rods at a fishing venue. It would certainly be popular and for me we should as customers maybe push them in this direction.
I relate this to my golfing days as being a reasonable player it was always advisable to try before you buy to get a real feel for how the golf club might suite you. The same should apply to fishing rods so come on manufacturers and tackle folks, it's time to step up!
 
Morning Mark. I have an 11' x 1.75 lone angler and the same spec Torrix. They both have the same action, what I would call progressive. The 11' f.s. Tamer is more through action. I like using them all, but I am under arm casting on a small river, so do not need a rod to cast distance or big weights.
 
This is the thing, I feel a lot of 'barbel' rods now are made to suit the tips in the air, huge feeder or lead style fishing. On my local W.Avon and Arrow this just isn't needed. Everything just seems overly heavy these days, big heavy rods, huge reels. Even my 1.25 Guru Speci rod feels heavy with huge guides on it


I've seen the 11ft version of the Lone Angler rod for sale too, it's called the stalker so wasn't sure if the action would have been modified much from a standard Torrix but it's good to know it's the same or very similar.

I'm tempted to try the 11ft 2lb Tamer, surely with a lighter quiver tip it would for Chub too? Could be my 1 rod to cover all my Barbel and Chub fishing?
 
Mark Evans 2 said:
This is the thing, I feel a lot of 'barbel' rods now are made to suit the tips in the air, huge feeder or lead style fishing. On my local W.Avon and Arrow this just isn't needed. Everything just seems overly heavy these days, big heavy rods, huge reels. Even my 1.25 Guru Speci rod feels heavy with huge guides on it


I've seen the 11ft version of the Lone Angler rod for sale too, it's called the stalker so wasn't sure if the action would have been modified much from a standard Torrix but it's good to know it's the same or very similar.

I'm tempted to try the 11ft 2lb Tamer, surely with a lighter quiver tip it would for Chub too? Could be my 1 rod to cover all my Barbel and Chub fishing?
Click to expand...
I think you're over thinking it Mark . I use an FS Hi S in 2.0 on the Avon and it's perfect . I've needed every bit of the action as well when playing barbel away from the areas they were feeding .

The rod is a nice slim blank and a pleasure to use . I really would not go below 1.5tc my barbel angling ... more preferably 1.75 ..
 
Through action rods have more power (actual pull strength) than crisp/fast/tippy rods-
because more of the blank is being used in the fight -

They will be slower to cast and not transfer enough (fast, crisp) energy into a cast though - and the tip recovery will be slower
(the wobble will put friction on the line and hold the weight back
 
Golf clubs should be custom fitted mate, they are much more specific than fishing rods and have all sorts of ins and outs to do with player's build, swing speed, swing plane, wrist to floor measurements etc etc etc

Although you can get used to any set, it's much better to get fitted and have them all consistent -
I just use some classy spinning rods for anything up to small carp, some of my other heavier spinning rods make better big carp rods than a lot of carp rods!
As I trained as a rod builder I saw through a lot of ''species specific'' rods frankly and some of the ''creative'' money they charge doesn't cut it for me either
 
Through actioned rods have always been referred to as players rods and have myself blindly accepted this statement for alot of years when in actual fact, they are good bullying rods. This to me is not playing fish. I now believe faster actioned rods to be true players in that contact is maintained with lighter pressure using "dog on the lead" control that is far more responsive and less likely to bottom out as quickly when needing to apply the brakes.
A few years ago Tony Parker built some 13ft trebuchet light (3.75lb test) rods for my range carp angling. They are a faster taper but surprisingly forgiving due to the 13ft blanks. This altered the way I play fish compared to my usual slow action "players rods" that I now use the faster actioned trebuchets most of the time in preference.
I still love the electricity of the through actioned rod buckling in the hand and have even bought a couple of cane rods that satisfy this feel but for strategic fish playing I feel faster actions do it best and my barbel rods will follow suit in the future.
 
My mate has the 12ft 1.75 Tamers, I might see if I can get another look now I've gotten used to softer rods after having the Gurus and see what I think. They were very nice looking rods, I probably can't afford the seekers though so Tamers will have to do if I do switch back.
 
In order to get the full benefit of a rods ability to put pressure on a fish you need to lock it up. Before this point the rod is essentially a spring and the leverage physics are largely irrelevant.

A locked up through action rod will be significantly shorter than a locked up fast action stiffer rod and there for the leverage advantage is given to the angler with the through action rod and more pressure can be applied to the fish with the through actioned Rod.

But it’s more complicated than this because if the rod suddenly becomes unlocked as the fish swims toward you the pressure applied to the fish on the softer through actioned rod will be less than the stiffer rod until the rod is locked up again because the action or spring is softer and is taken up easily.

It’s far more complicated than just leverage alone because every hook up something different can happen and the pressure applied to the fish can be very different depending on where in the rods action the rod is taken too.

A classic example is chub.
A through action rod that bends along way before lock up is terrible for chub because they head straight for your feet taking up the whole rods action before you can start using the pressure or leverage advantage and by then ….. it’s too late. Your hook length is tied up in a double bow round the bull rushes.

Something stiffer in the middle actually puts more pressure on chub because you can push them out with the stiffness of the rod something thats far more difficult with a soft rod.
A barbel gunning it for the next town down stream is definitely better controlled on a through actioned softer rod where the simple lack of length offering leverage is definitely in your favour to stop her and it’s almost certainly going to lock the rod up for maximum pressure.

The other consideration in all this is obviously carbon strength. It’s all very well locking up a through actioned rod for maximum pressure but if the rod goes bang then it wasn’t up for it anyway despite how well it dealing with The pressure
 
Great write up!

In other news, seems the Barbel Tamers are pretty much unavailable from anywhere, not sure if stock is just low or they have been discontinued?
 
very fast, very crisp high end spinning rods are fantastic for general coarse fishing - and an absolute dream to cast light weights halfway to France with a gentle flick - plus you get fantastic lengths with spinning rods -

I like 9ft light spinning rods which are in test curve terms (all that rubbish) just like a ''mini avon''
(test curve is relatable to a pound per ounce of casting weight)

I reccomend Daiwa Saltist - not cheap but absolutely sensuous sleek finessey quality, plus ultra light
They would be absolutely spot on for big chub (which are a very similar fish to bass, the species the Saltist is designed for)

Ugly Stik Elites are good as well, nice blanks partially GRP; very bouncy through actions which I like using for small carp on little shallow down to Earth, open water club venue - they sort out my big roach fishing as well as they are gentle through actions (albeit very rugged blanks indeed)-

I'm not interested in coarse rods as it all starts getting a bit silly and muggy for the tackle industry's marketing - some species specific rods are not really different to other species, trick is to work it out for yourself - using spinning rods for coarse fishing, or trimming very light fly rods down a little bit is nothing new at all anyway - the very best roach rods are adapted ultralight fly rod blanks I believe (at least used to be)
 
Richard Isaacs said:
In order to get the full benefit of a rods ability to put pressure on a fish you need to lock it up. Before this point the rod is essentially a spring and the leverage physics are largely irrelevant.

A locked up through action rod will be significantly shorter than a locked up fast action stiffer rod and there for the leverage advantage is given to the angler with the through action rod and more pressure can be applied to the fish with the through actioned Rod.

But it’s more complicated than this because if the rod suddenly becomes unlocked as the fish swims toward you the pressure applied to the fish on the softer through actioned rod will be less than the stiffer rod until the rod is locked up again because the action or spring is softer and is taken up easily.

It’s far more complicated than just leverage alone because every hook up something different can happen and the pressure applied to the fish can be very different depending on where in the rods action the rod is taken too.

A classic example is chub.
A through action rod that bends along way before lock up is terrible for chub because they head straight for your feet taking up the whole rods action before you can start using the pressure or leverage advantage and by then ….. it’s too late. Your hook length is tied up in a double bow round the bull rushes.

Something stiffer in the middle actually puts more pressure on chub because you can push them out with the stiffness of the rod something thats far more difficult with a soft rod.
A barbel gunning it for the next town down stream is definitely better controlled on a through actioned softer rod where the simple lack of length offering leverage is definitely in your favour to stop her and it’s almost certainly going to lock the rod up for maximum pressure.

The other consideration in all this is obviously carbon strength. It’s all very well locking up a through actioned rod for maximum pressure but if the rod goes bang then it wasn’t up for it anyway despite how well it dealing with The pressure
Click to expand...


Excellent explanation Richard, well done 👍.
 
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