New Normark Rods

[Alec Hague]

I find this discussion most interesting. I rarely fish simply using a float . Whilst I use a float rod, it is usually attached inter alia to a polaris float. One of the best imho is the tsi specialist 12ft. Correctly set, the rod gives almost a quivertip reaction thus providing a second indicator. Experience shows that the float and tip can be aligned quite easily. So I am hopeful that a normark can do the same. Sadly a waggle in a tackle shop will not suffice. For carp fishing, the tsi, my sportex barbel and sportex xclusive are great. A polaris is quite ok down to say 15g so most float rods wiĺ cope but not many excell. My favourite was the marksman extreme 13ft. Hoping an opportunity arises to try and see wiylth a new normark rather than just suck it and see but that's doubtful.

Ps. The sportex excl float has a casting weight of 40g. That's more than I have seen on many floats, but as a power float with polaris its great. Will the legacy rods compare I wonder?

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Ps. The sportex excl float has a casting weight of 40g. That's more than I have seen on many floats, but as a power float with polaris its great. Will the legacy rods compare I wonder?

I take this statistic with a very large pinch of salt.
A good example is my Preston supera x float is rated to cast 12g.
My sphere is rated to 30g
I’ve got a shimano rated to 25g iirc
It’s just made up bollocks imo.
an accurate description of the action along with a min and max main line rating is far more useful to me to have an idea where the rod would sit in a line up.

Btw for me the only thing I would cast very carefully that resembles anything like the casting weights float rods provide would be a plummet even then it wouldn’t be any more than probably 15g and as I don’t particularly enjoy still water fishing I can’t remember the last time I actually used one.

 

[Alec Hague]

I take this statistic with a very large pinch of salt.
A good example is my Preston supera x float is rated to cast 12g.
My sphere is rated to 30g
I’ve got a shimano rated to 25g iirc
It’s just made up bollocks imo.
an accurate description of the action along with a min and max main line rating is far more useful to me to have an idea where the rod would sit in a line up.

Btw for me the only thing I would cast very carefully that resembles anything like the casting weights float rods provide would be a plummet even then it wouldn’t be any more than probably 15g and as I don’t particularly enjoy still water fishing I can’t remember the last time I actually used one.

Got to remember Richard they are German rods. They were never sold here. The feeder is 4 oz and will do it too. I put 2x2oz bombs on just to see. The 40g float will chuck a loaded 30g feeder 30 yards with no difficulty. They are both 12ft rods.

 

[Alec Hague]

Got to remember Richard they are German rods. They were never sold here. The feeder is 4 oz and will do it too. The 40g float will chuck a loaded 30g feeder 30+ yards with no difficulty. They are both 12ft

 

[Stuart Linton]

Would the Titan be equivalent to an Acolyte plus in terms of power?

 

[Chris Jones]

Got to remember Richard they are German rods. They were never sold here. The feeder is 4 oz and will do it too. I put 2x2oz bombs on just to see. The 40g float will chuck a loaded 30g feeder 30 yards with no difficulty. They are both 12ft rods.

Perhaps the German Sportex rods are accurately rated. However, my experience is that you can take many float rod casting weight ratings with a pinch of salt (I don't have great faith in many companies test curve or line ratings either). An awful lot of float rods aren't even given a casting weights.

I know you've had a bit of a thing for Shimano rods in the past. they certainly do give float rods casting weights, at least in their catalogues. Most of their normal match rods are usually rated to 15g. The fast action (FA) versions are usually 20g. There are outliers, but they aren't common. These rods are the relatively uncommon Specimen Match variants. These rods are generally rated to 30g. Another anomaly comes in the form of Vengeance (VCL**) and Catana (CATCXFL**) Float rods These are quite distinct from the Vengeance and Catana match rods and look more like barbel rods with their minimum number of large double-legged guides. The Vengeance was rated 10-30g and the Catana 10-20g, though you'd struggle to see much difference without the catalogue to inform you.

Another couple to look out for would be the Beastmaster BX Carp Float (BMBXF13), rated to 25g. There are also Beastmaster Commercial Floatcast rods (BMAX1*0). These weren't given a casting weight, but they were intended for launching big "bagging waggler" floats on bigger waters.

I've used the Shimano Beastmaster Floatcast, Catana and a Specimen Match rod in conjunction with Polaris floats and 20g+ feeders on a deep gravel pit.

 

[Alec Hague]

Perhaps the German Sportex rods are accurately rated. However, my experience is that you can take many float rod casting weight ratings with a pinch of salt (I don't have great faith in many companies test curve or line ratings either). An awful lot of float rods aren't even given a casting weights.

I know you've had a bit of a thing for Shimano rods in the past. they certainly do give float rods casting weights, at least in their catalogues. Most of their normal match rods are usually rated to 15g. The fast action (FA) versions are usually 20g. There are outliers, but they aren't common. These rods are the relatively uncommon Specimen Match variants. These rods are generally rated to 30g. Another anomaly comes in the form of Vengeance (VCL**) and Catana (CATCXFL**) Float rods These are quite distinct from the Vengeance and Catana match rods and look more like barbel rods with their minimum number of large double-legged guides. The Vengeance was rated 10-30g and the Catana 10-20g, though you'd struggle to see much difference without the catalogue to inform you.

Another couple to look out for would be the Beastmaster BX Carp Float (BMBXF13), rated to 25g. There are also Beastmaster Commercial Floatcast rods (BMAX1*0). These weren't given a casting weight, but they were intended for launching big "bagging waggler" floats on bigger waters.

I've used the Shimano Beastmaster Floatcast, Catana and a Specimen Match rod in conjunction with Polaris floats and 20g+ feeders on a deep gravel pit.

That's brilliant Richard. Given me loads to ponder. Thank you.

 

[Alec Hague]

That's brilliant Richard. Given me loads to ponder. Thank you.

I am not saying what Germans say is correct merely that I know, when selling to them 50 years ago quality was paramount and price came 2nd. I expect it different now but then , when Germany was an industrial powerhouse, quality was all. I bought the sportex barbel and it showed that they were using x wrap of carbon very early. You know far more about this than I ever will, but I did use daiwa versions and liked them. So when I saw x wrapped feeder and floats, ie the exvlusivevrange, I bought. They are rods to take to Poland if you know what I mean but they are quite brilliant in that I don't need to worry too much about snags and trees. They do chuck as labelled. Not the finesse obviously of some x 45 rods but fun none the less.

 

[Alec Hague]

Ps. Sportex do an avon at 10 or 10.6 which has a cw of 90 g. Sadly only Glasgow angling do them but I would love to see one. My peregrine avon is excellent pared with a polaris too.

 

[Jim Gregory]

Regarding line ratings and casting weights etc, I believe they are only ever a guide to reassure the angler.
As Richard states they are mainly " made up bollocks".
Better left to the angler to dictate , in their specific angling situations.
Like many others, I've given my fs hi s 15ft alot more punishment than you could imagine, 14lb plus barbel in both long open shallow runs, and 14lb plus in the smallest snagpit you could ever imagine!.
Line ratings don't bother me in the slightest, the minimum I put through mine now is 35lb. And by God can you apply some pressure.
If a hook is straight before you snap your line , or break your rod, it just goes to show how much these top end carbons can cope with. I've not had experience with the tfg tsi, but my tfg tremor, 15ft belies belief!.
Probably equals the mk1 15ft hi s.
I'm awaiting a 15ft avenger with much anticipation ...

 

[Jim Gregory]

Btw, has anyone had much experience with the mk1 hi s 10ft power float, id be very interested in any opinions ........

 

[Richard Parsons]

I was under the impression that Normark (as a brand) was gobbled up by Masterline (in the early 2000s) and, thus, the quality of their rods diminished somewhat. Have they become a single entity once again, or have Masterline been rebranded as Normark (the latter being synonymous with quality rods)? I'm sure everyone here remembers Masterline produced a range of John Wilson monikered rods, which I'm told were pretty decent. Have I missed about fifteen years of Normark history?

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I was under the impression that Normark (as a brand) was gobbled up by Masterline (in the early 2000s) and, thus, the quality of their rods diminished somewhat. Have they become a single entity once again, or have Masterline been rebranded as Normark (the latter being synonymous with quality rods)? I'm sure everyone here remembers Masterline produced a range of John Wilson monikered rods, which I'm told were pretty decent. Have I missed about fifteen years of Normark history?

Masterline didn’t gobble up normark but they including normark were one of a number of brands under the rapala umbrella.

Masterline were what normark fell back on to develop the rods.

I don’t know what order everything went down in but at this transition point around 2001 ish. GS and OT left to do the carbotec thing then the Japanese carbon became unavailable or too expensive
Masterline used the Japanese carbon for a bit and made a selection of now rare but good quality 13 footers then a different carbon was used to continue them on to 2007. Then no more.

Normark are still under the rapala umbrella
Okuma is doing the manufacturing in their own facilities in China. and the carbon is very high quality 40T and 46T Japanese carbon.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Would the Titan be equivalent to an Acolyte plus in terms of power?

I don’t know about the new ones Stuart but in terms of the team 2000’s i would say no the acolyte plus would align much better with the avenger in terms of action, power and suitable line ratings.
The titan 2000 is more like the acolyte ultra imo.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Got to remember Richard they are German rods. They were never sold here. The feeder is 4 oz and will do it too. I put 2x2oz bombs on just to see. The 40g float will chuck a loaded 30g feeder 30 yards with no difficulty. They are both 12ft rods.

I’d expect the feeder rod to comfortably cast a stated payload Alec and I’d expect it to be an accurate and reliable statistic indeed because casting weight is extremely relevant when it comes to feeder rods. Especially those with multiple tip strengths.

In the float rod game it’s way less important to know and like I said, if it wasn’t for the good old plummet, I don’t think many uk float anglers would get anywhere near what the rods state even on those playing on the side of caution like the Preston’s.

I can’t comment on the sport ex because I’ve never owned one or even used one but based on rods I have and do own, the few that do give a casting weight, it’s just a number that doesn’t align with anything from equally matched rods offerings on their numbers.

I have a shimano ultegra 15ft spc and it’s relatively similar in terms of power action and line ratings as the Preston supera X power.
In fact the Preston feels a little more substantial and punchy.
Shimano say I can cast over an ounce and Preston tell me half ounce is too much.

My tri cast says 20g is the limit and that has a semi rigid long spliced tip that i would consider very durable as far as spliced tips go. Browning sphere tips are incredibly soft and short in comparison yet browning say go nuts and lob out 30g.

Personally i ignore these numbers as there is no logical explanation for them and to be fair I would never attempt to cast that weight on a float rod and I see myself personally as someone that definitely uses floats on the heavier side than most.

Some Europeans are no strangers to throwing out massive 20g bolos on the huge rivers out there and the Americans love 20-30g “bobbers” for steel heading but here we tend to rarely go past the 10g mark. More often than not it’s 3-6g maximum for most

 

[Alec Hague]

I’d expect the feeder rod to comfortably cast a stated payload Alec and I’d expect it to be an accurate and reliable statistic indeed because casting weight is extremely relevant when it comes to feeder rods. Especially those with multiple tip strengths.

In the float rod game it’s way less important to know and like I said, if it wasn’t for the good old plummet, I don’t think many uk float anglers would get anywhere near what the rods state even on those playing on the side of caution like the Preston’s.

I can’t comment on the sport ex because I’ve never owned one or even used one but based on rods I have and do own, the few that do give a casting weight, it’s just a number that doesn’t align with anything from equally matched rods offerings on their numbers.

I have a shimano ultegra 15ft spc and it’s relatively similar in terms of power action and line ratings as the Preston supera X power.
In fact the Preston feels a little more substantial and punchy.
Shimano say I can cast over an ounce and Preston tell me half ounce is too much.

My tri cast says 20g is the limit and that has a semi rigid long spliced tip that i would consider very durable as far as spliced tips go. Browning sphere tips are incredibly soft and short in comparison yet browning say go nuts and lob out 30g.

Personally i ignore these numbers as there is no logical explanation for them and to be fair I would never attempt to cast that weight on a float rod and I see myself personally as someone that definitely uses floats on the heavier side than most.

Some Europeans are no strangers to throwing out massive 20g bolos on the huge rivers out there and the Americans love 20-30g “bobbers” for steel heading but here we tend to rarely go past the 10g mark. More often than not it’s 3-6g maximum for most

Cheers for that Richard, all makes sense. Apart from the sportex the most Cw I have seen, as you say, is. 15g. But with a polaris that needs a weight to cock it plus there is the feeder. At one time I bought weights down to 10g and used a 10 g polaris but tbh it doesn't matter too much. As long as the weight/ feeder is over the cocking weight(given on the polaris) that's fine. I doubt if anyone else plays with polaris much these days but I have found early samples, mostly those given away with a/times, peacock and 2 pack. A bit big but will go for miles and still be seen. Just quirky me on a lake, ha. I haven't the courage of you river guys.

 

[Tim Penn]

I don’t know about the new ones Stuart but in terms of the team 2000’s i would say no the acolyte plus would align much better with the avenger in terms of action, power and suitable line ratings.
The titan 2000 is more like the acolyte ultra imo.

I’ll add my thoughts to this (no science behind it) but with acolyte specimen rods being available now I’m not sure if the waters are muddied a bit more?? I’m not sure where the specimen fits in the ranking?

Personally the avenger feels more powerful than my acolyte plus. My 15ft plus feels far more delicate, that’s not to say it wouldn’t handle the same powerful fish as the normark as many others use it no problem at all, but for me the avenger inspires more confidence with how it feels (personal thing of course and I’m inexperienced with trotting for big fish on the river) whereas the acolyte feels more fragile, mine is currently mainly used for suicidal crazy trout and grayling on the test due to the size of river needing a longer rod.

Saying that though I’ve hooked a salmon on the itchen with the acolyte/centre pin and it did ok, didn’t land the fish but that wasn’t the rods fault, it straightened and snapped a hook after I ran after it to save it stripping my pin bare.

 

[Richard Parsons]

Masterline didn’t gobble up normark but they including normark were one of a number of brands under the rapala umbrella.

Masterline were what normark fell back on to develop the rods.

I don’t know what order everything went down in but at this transition point around 2001 ish. GS and OT left to do the carbotec thing then the Japanese carbon became unavailable or too expensive
Masterline used the Japanese carbon for a bit and made a selection of now rare but good quality 13 footers then a different carbon was used to continue them on to 2007. Then no more.

Normark are still under the rapala umbrella
Okuma is doing the manufacturing in their own facilities in China. and the carbon is very high quality 40T and 46T Japanese carbon.

Thanks for this info, Rich. I have a couple of Normark barbel rods (twin tips 1.5lb/2lb, though one only came with the 2lb tc version) and had cork handles fitted very early on. They're wonderfully slim blanks, and probably twenty years old, so not from the Normark heyday.

 

[Ian Woods]

I popped round to the local tackle shop today for some maggots and while I was there the shop owner produced a normark legasy limited numbered avenger for me to have a waggle with.
A week or so back a good friend of mine gave me his opinion of the new avenger after he had a play with one in his local tackle shop. After seeing the new avenger myself today his description of it to me was spot on imo.
So, for me, the rod has the action of a waggler rod, just like its predecessors. I'm not saying thats a bad thing.
I used the two and three thousand ranges for years before letting them go in favour of the next generation 13ft MKII normarks which have a very similar action to these latest rods. I never caught any harm using them and still use the MKII avenger (which was a firm favourite of mine for a long time) on odd occasions. I was kinda dissapointed to see the latest normark rods guides, which imo are a step down in quality to the fuji SIC guides fitted to the MKII range of rods. The hook keeper on the butt section would be a nuisance and a hinderance for me, I can envisage a lot of those being cut off by their owners!
So, for me personally, the rod felt sloppy in comparison to the likes of the browning sphere spliced rods (even the sphere waggler rods) the acolyte specimen, also the acolyte plus. I waited for years to get a float rod with the stiff mid section which the speci acloyte rod has, which feels so much better for the purpose of float fishing on running water....again jmo.
I am not slagging the new normark rods off at all, merely stating my opinion of them after a somewhat short inspection of one, and as the old saying goes...never say never, I might get one in future if I get the urge.

 

[Stuart Linton]

I went to a shop today to have a look at one as my wife was going to buy it as my 50th birthday present. Not as tippy as I thought it would be but still felt good. However for the price of the rod there were a couple of things that put me off and you may think me fussy for mentioning these point. Firstly the tip section had a bend to the left, a set or kink if you like. Second the ringing was not straight especially on the tip section, neither was the reel seat to the butt eyes.

Again call me fussy but I've had many rods over the years and quite a few custom builds too but I would not be happy to accept a rod of that price with that quality control. Perfectly functional but it would erk me everytime I picked it up.