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Closed Season Controversy

Graham Elliott said:
The other point Craig..
They might feel stress. But soon forget it as catching the same fish twice within hours as I and no doubt others have done seems to proves it.
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Fully understand that Graham , but that doesn't make it right and it does not make anglers conservationists. I am sure just like you Graham , i absolutely love nature and the great outdoors , but i also like hunting , in my case fishing. Yes of course its true Anglers respect wildlife but again its only to serve our own selfishness and blinkered view that we are doing nothing wrong and we are not causing any harm to our quarry. Many would disagree that catching fish for sport is harmless , and i believe scientists have proved that fish feel pain and being caught does cause stress . I am only saying this because i believe its relevant to the closed season debate where some anglers think that by giving fish a rest somehow makes Anglers Conservationists . We only do it to serve our own needs and not that of the fish..
 
Craig.
I think anglers do contribute.
From feeding birds during cold times to reporting riverine problems.

I did have a letter published in a national newspaper some years ago when the fish-pain issue was in vogue.

I recounted that I had caught and returned the same fish four times in a hour on the Hants Avon.

However, do anglers damage fish. Yes. Mostly harmlessly and IMO pain free.

My point is that hunting seasons give the quarry a break. Presumably so stock is not decimated, as you say for probably selfish reasons.
.
So lets be selfish for our sport.
 
Craig Wood said:
Fully understand that Graham , but that doesn't make it right and it does not make anglers conservationists. I am sure just like you Graham , i absolutely love nature and the great outdoors , but i also like hunting , in my case fishing. Yes of course its true Anglers respect wildlife but again its only to serve our own selfishness and blinkered view that we are doing nothing wrong and we are not causing any harm to our quarry. Many would disagree that catching fish for sport is harmless , and i believe scientists have proved that fish feel pain and being caught does cause stress . I am only saying this because i believe its relevant to the closed season debate where some anglers think that by giving fish a rest somehow makes Anglers Conservationists . We only do it to serve our own needs and not that of the fish..
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Personally I care more about the water quality, and the quality of the surroundings than than the quality of fish I catch, and as far as doing harm to fish I guess if you were to balance what we do against fish being predated on, it's minimal. But I believe anglers are romantic, well not match anglers I guess, but the types that are on here, we seem to do it for many reasons other than just catching.

Take John Lee on the Teme, struggling to catch a Barbel at the moment, but he is none the less as keen as mustard, still. And if I may Shaun Nurse and a few others who have introduced his girls to the wonders of fishing, and I have witnessed what magic that brings to them.

Yes the other side of the coin is we fish, and their has to be an element of discomfort applied to the fish, but what are we to do? Angling enriches our lives, and as Humans our Heritage is to hunt, we are merely fulfilling that need, we are so controlled by what we do by laws that this is for me the last bastions of being free.

Of course we are conservationists probably more than those that set themselves up as such, I have rubbed shoulders with them, and of course fellow Anglers, I can tell you Anglers have a greater understanding, and do actually CARE.

OK debate the closed season, but please leave me out of all the other reasons you give as to how I am as a Angler and a man, you might feel that way but I certainly do not.
 
Neil Smart said:
well not match anglers I guess, but the types that are on here, we seem to do it for many reasons other than just catching..
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Neil, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that but you have to remember what match anglers do regarding rivers in particular. you seem to have a view that match anglers just fish to catch and have very little care or input to rivers?

If so I would totally disagree. the majority of clubs I'm a member of are run by match anglers, providing the waters to fish, do the work parties, liase with the EA for improvements, encourage new members and have the general well being of there waters has a prime concern.

now I know this does not mean all pleasure/specimen/barbel anglers are like this but many are very solitary in there fishing having little or no input into the welfare of there rivers and tend not to be committee members or look after the waters they fish, basically bouncing around clubs and waters to suit there angling needs...that's not having a go at them, that's just the way it is.
 
Here is a question Guys ? We all know the close season is not perfect . My question , Is it ethical to target fish when they are trying to breed and reproduce ?
 
No! Next...

The close season in its current form does not stop anglers from targetting fish on the spawning grounds come June 16th.

Ethics doesnt come into it for most people as they don't think about it. They just go fishing.
 
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Jason Bean said:
Neil, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that but you have to remember what match anglers do regarding rivers in particular. you seem to have a view that match anglers just fish to catch and have very little care or input to rivers?

If so I would totally disagree. the majority of clubs I'm a member of are run by match anglers, providing the waters to fish, do the work parties, liase with the EA for improvements, encourage new members and have the general well being of there waters has a prime concern.

now I know this does not mean all pleasure/specimen/barbel anglers are like this but many are very solitary in there fishing having little or no input into the welfare of there rivers and tend not to be committee members or look after the waters they fish, basically bouncing around clubs and waters to suit there angling needs...that's not having a go at them, that's just the way it is.
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To be honest I do think Match Anglers are less inclined to worry about the things we might as far as Environment, that is not being elitist just how I perceive it. We don't like putting fish in keepnets, especially Barbel, and yet it is of course a requirement for them. The Match scene now has some good financial rewards, so that can be a motivation. We have all witnessed pools that are stocked with F1's and circled by Anglers, I am afraid these fish do seem to have a hapless life, that pastime is more akin to darts than fishing for me.
I know that the clubs like the BAA and others owe their existence to the Match Angler, and for that I am grateful, the BAA has some wonderful waters and all for a bargain price, to both the Match and Specimen or perhaps just casual type. I take your point that committee's do I suppose have a vested interest in maintaining and improving, but does the average Match Angler?
Yes I am a bit at a loss as to understand just where in the Match scene the Environment is a major issue, perhaps if you could give me some examples I might have a different opinion.
Bodies such as the Wye and Usk, Severn Rivers etc Trust do have a commitment and a genuine regard for improving our Rivers, although the latter seems to have gone Shad Mad at the moment .:)
 
Joe Fletcher said:
Here is a question Guys ? We all know the close season is not perfect . My question , Is it ethical to target fish when they are trying to breed and reproduce ?
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Given that spawning fish are less inclined to feed probably not, but it seems more of an issue with still waters than rivers where those fish may have a limited area to spawn and be left to do so, ironically there is no close season for them, it seems Ethics might not be a factor here.
Hope you are well Joe..
 
Neil Smart said:
To be honest I do think Match Anglers are less inclined to worry about the things we might as far as Environment, that is not being elitist just how I perceive it. We don't like putting fish in keepnets, especially Barbel, and yet it is of course a requirement for them. The Match scene now has some good financial rewards, so that can be a motivation. We have all witnessed pools that are stocked with F1's and circled by Anglers, I am afraid these fish do seem to have a hapless life, that pastime is more akin to darts than fishing for me.
I know that the clubs like the BAA and others owe their existence to the Match Angler, and for that I am grateful, the BAA has some wonderful waters and all for a bargain price, to both the Match and Specimen or perhaps just casual type. I take your point that committee's do I suppose have a vested interest in maintaining and improving, but does the average Match Angler?
Yes I am a bit at a loss as to understand just where in the Match scene the Environment is a major issue, perhaps if you could give me some examples I might have a different opinion.
Bodies such as the Wye and Usk, Severn Rivers etc Trust do have a commitment and a genuine regard for improving our Rivers, although the latter seems to have gone Shad Mad at the moment .:)
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Point is from my experience in oxford being both a "specimen angler" and a "match angler" on natural venues and mixing in both circles of anglers also as a committee member of a local club, the ODAA and the UTFC the guys that are looking after and running things are mainly club match anglers. the specimen guys I know tend to be more secretive in what they do and where they fish and have very little input into preserving the waters they fish and in all honesty there main gripe is always otters. from talking to the specimen guys I know the younger ones would like the closed season scrapping and the older ones keep it. the match anglers I know are all starting to come to the opinion of scrap it as they see so few anglers on the bank now and would like every chance of keeping anglers interested in rivers as much as they can.
 
Jason Bean said:
Point is from my experience in oxford being both a "specimen angler" and a "match angler" on natural venues and mixing in both circles of anglers also as a committee member of a local club, the ODAA and the UTFC the guys that are looking after and running things are mainly club match anglers. the specimen guys I know tend to be more secretive in what they do and where they fish and have very little input into preserving the waters they fish and in all honesty there main gripe is always otters. from talking to the specimen guys I know the younger ones would like the closed season scrapping and the older ones keep it. the match anglers I know are all starting to come to the opinion of scrap it as they see so few anglers on the bank now and would like every chance of keeping anglers interested in rivers as much as they can.
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Clubs like yours should have such matters regarding close seasons for them to decide, also where to fish especially any areas that are spawning areas, it could be that as far as Barbel and other species are concerned the ban on fishing could extend beyond the 16th. Maybe we all will have to dig deeper to fund our clubs, I do think there is a lack of expertise at committee levels in most clubs, we do need more advice as to how to manage our precious resource, and not be governed by selfish needs. I wonder how clubs engage with the EA? The act of cutting out platforms, removing vegetation and trees can have a huge effect on River flows, but this work is carried out as 'improvements'.
But of course the real problem is predation from a variety of sources, and to that end we really need to have a unified voice, instead just having to put up with our Rivers being emptied year on year.
When you compare just how organised the game fishing clubs are, we have a lot to learn, I know the Wye and Usk Foundation is not popular with many anglers, they have now control over large stretches of the Wye that was open to many Clubs at cheap rates, it can cost up to £40 a day to fish their waters, but have a rod restriction of approx just four a day, and spend a fair amount on managing the Rivers, I would hate to think how the Wye would be to-day without them.

Note.
I did say we should consult with the EA as far as managing Rivers, I appreciate I might have to dig out a tin hat.:eek:
 
Ive hardly seen another angler on the Wye since Xmas, even one of the top barbel rivers gets little angling pressure except in one or two well known areas. Miles of unfished rivers all over the country, I'd say time for the close season to be abolished.
 
spending the last week at Hereford the most day tickets sold in 1 day was 6 and that was including myself and my mate and the other anglers had match kit and stayed around the rowing club. we had it all to ourselves.
 
Cliff Turner said:
Ive hardly seen another angler on the Wye since Xmas, even one of the top barbel rivers gets little angling pressure except in one or two well known areas. Miles of unfished rivers all over the country, I'd say time for the close season to be abolished.
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I believe most Rivers have suffered since Christmas with lack of Anglers, but come June they get busy as Hell, Wye is no exception as we well know. But given that Barbel will spawn all along the Wye, it is a River that needs to be treated with some care, for instance the large qty of lime put in in the headwaters to balance the Ph. Feel happy that the WUF do actually monitor the River.
 
It's likely the ice water had something to do with it..........

I know of at least 16 that cancelled the last 2 weeks.

And don't forget.......many rivers have far far far less barbel than the Wye.

Bit of a red herring chaps basing anything on those efforts.
 
The Wye, Trent and to a lesser extent the Severn, are probably the only rivers where angling pressure is significant, and that's because they've still got a good head of barbel in them, although numbers are declining on both the Severn and Trent imo. I think the closed season will be abolished, which may help appease some river anglers who have become dismayed by the current state of many rivers, but ultimately river fishing in the UK is in terminal decline. The decline has been going on for some time but was reversed for several years by the increase in popularity of barbel angling, but with barbel numbers in steep decline, the end is again in sight ! If the closed season is abolished, I will fill my boots fishing in March and April and would then expect to be off the rivers sometime in May, possibly until the end of July, depending on what the committee of my club decides. Where's the problem in that ? Much better than what we have now, surely.
 
It's all a bit academic now, as it can't happen this year and is very unlikely to happen before next March, given that the government will be preoccupied with more pressing concerns between now and then.....

Dave
 
David Clewer said:
It's all a bit academic now, as it can't happen this year and is very unlikely to happen before next March, given that the government will be preoccupied with more pressing concerns between now and then.....

Dave
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They do need to prioritise. ..never mind Brexit, Russia, laughing at Cornyn, get it done.
 
The EA may choose to do nothing. As we all know government departments are 'very keen' to consult all 'stakeholders' just so they can say they done so. As there appears to be no pressing reason to change, other than anglers wanting to be able to fish all year round, they may just stick with what the current status quo is?
 
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