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Cockapoo: Fishing friend or foe

Tony Rocca said:
"I've seen how some are treated and there personality is crushed out of them and that is just unacceptable for me".

I have seen that too Richard and couldn't agree more.

Howard, are you sure your surname is spelt Cooke?....... David said, "I bought mine with the specific hope that he would be a fishing companion".
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Yes, I am sure my surname is Cooke and that is how it is spelt. The silent "e" confused you no doubt.
 
If I may add my two 2p'ath... I've been a border collie owner virtually all my life, but over the last 5 days I've been looking after a Springer (owner gone to watch 2nd Test..envious or what!) I'm just in from walking her and my considered (ok its only been 5 days) opinion is.... they are £uckin' bonkers. "Box of frogs" doesn't do them justice...she's either mule-ishly refusing to move (from settee, or car) or going at stupid+ mph..always in straight lines, through or over whatever happens to be in her way. I think she'd LIKE to be good, but her genes/brain/whatever have other ideas.
She has personality for sure...but so has Lee Evans:)
 
Our working cocker is from field sport lines but my missus does agility and she is being trained to do this (18 months old) - having lived with 3 collies she has developed a hell of a turn of speed and loves the training. So far she has not run out of the ring, often typical of spaniels if they get a scent, and being a bitch she is more developed than the dogs at this age - agility folk are queuing up for her pups if we choose to breed. So it is about training but instinct you cannot get rid of as i see when we are out and she sees pheasants...Brilliant dog who will grab our biggest colllie ear and be dragged along for yards while the dog is barking madly at her...i wont take her fishing though as she will jump into my lap/hands at any point.
 
Paul.
I hope the training of you Missus goes well.

I've been trying 35 years with mine without much success.

Graham
 
Tony Rocca said:
"I've seen how some are treated and there personality is crushed out of them and that is just unacceptable for me".

I have seen that too Richard and couldn't agree more.

Howard, are you sure your surname is spelt Cooke?....... David said, "I bought mine with the specific hope that he would be a fishing companion".
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You are quite right Tony, I did say that, and I really had hoped he would make a good fishing companion when I bought him 18 months ago. As I said, I agree with your comment that he COULD be trained to behave better. He does obey a good number of commands as it is, certainly enough to satisfy me in a normal domestic situation, but I am not at all sure that he could ever be a good fishing dog.

I had tried to explain in my second post exactly why I felt that way, but it actually goes deeper than that. The fact is my health has deteriorated since I bought him, to the stage where just walking him up the small hill at the end of my road and on through the woods is about as much exercise as I can cope with. I think I went fishing something like four times last year for that reason, so what I had hoped for back then...is not the reality of now.

Such is life.

Cheers, Dave.
 
I agree with David to an extent mine is not worked but has the instincts first and foremost though he's a pet. Both my dogs love the river especially getting in (I also have a collie x). As for collies I don't think they have the patience to sit for hours at a time mine stay home when I fish.
 

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Clive Shipman said:
I agree with David to an extent mine is not worked but has the instincts first and foremost though he's a pet. Both my dogs love the river especially getting in (I also have a collie x). As for collies I don't think they have the patience to sit for hours at a time mine stay home when I fish.
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Mine stays in the van.:)
 

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This thread has surprised me. What has happened to the mantra that "its not the dogs fault, its the owners":confused:

Stephen
 
Stephen Whyte said:
This thread has surprised me. What has happened to the mantra that "its not the dogs fault, its the owners":confused:

Stephen
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Its true, its true!!! But I must write that Gracie, that Springer that I'm 'babysitting' this week, nearly knocked herself out this afternoon. I went to open the tailgate of my estate car to take her a walk, but she pre-pre-empted..... and rammed her head, full force, into my rear number plate. "Box of frogs" aint in it:)
 
Richard Longmuir said:
Spaniels are without doubt very difficult to train particularly working strains,shooting men say a Lab is bourn half trained and a Spaniel dies half trained.Most working dogs are are kennelled which makes things slightly easier but when they are pets and part of the family it's virtually impossible to have that level of control you see in the shooting field.

I've seen how some are treated and there personality is crushed out of them and that is just unacceptable for me.
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Trained mine to a picking up standard to the whistle and she was 10 months old.
Done properly spaniels are fine.
 
Stephen Whyte said:
This thread has surprised me. What has happened to the mantra that "its not the dogs fault, its the owners":confused:

Stephen
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Nothing has happened to it, it still is what it always was...a mantra. If you look up the meaning of the word 'mantra', you will find something like this 'A word or sound repeated to aid concentration'. That in no way points to the words used as a 'mantra' being in any way true.

Everyone who knows dogs knows that each dog has a slightly different character, but at the same time, there are definitely character traits that are present to some degree in virtually every member of any given breed. While it IS true that if you train any dog systematically for a reasonably lengthy period, you can subdue those characteristics...but they are still there, you cannot eradicate them completely.

If you want a dog that is totally subservient to you, that does nothing until you tell it to, you can achieve that (at least while you are with the dog). Personally, I definitely don't want that, although I admit that there are small areas of my dogs behaviour that I would like to change a little bit, purely for his own safety.

Cocker and springer spaniels ARE by nature...as mad as a box of frogs. I have never come across one that wasn't. Train that out of them as best you can if you like...but that IS their natural character, and it's a bit weird of anyone to try to pretend that it isn't so. My previous dog was a golden retriever....calm, cool and collected once his puppy stage was done and dusted, with very few minor lapses. Those two breeds of dogs are as different as chalk and cheese...but that is not either the dog or the owners 'fault', in fact it isn't a fault at all....it is just fact. I really can't see what is 'surprising' or 'confusing' about that?

Cheers, Dave.
 
We have only ourselves to blame, considering man, through selective breeding obtained all these variations of a standard Wolf or African dog. These different traits we find either quaint or queer, is very much of our own making.
 
Neil Smart said:
We have only ourselves to blame, considering man, through selective breeding obtained all these variations of a standard Wolf or African dog. These different traits we find either quaint or queer, is very much of our own making.
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Very true Neil...specific dogs were bred for specific purposes originally, and cockers were bred to put up and/or fetch small game, springers for slightly larger stuff, and so on. Sadly, the worst side of mans character has now been displayed once more, in that we have interbred so many dogs simply to adhere to insane dog show judges specifications that we have entire breeds that are sad, unhealthy creatures, the majority of which spend their entire short lives in constant pain. Worse, all that has been done purely to allow the deluded owners to bask in what they perceive to be the 'Glory' of their pet being the winner of these bizarre spectacles.

So yes, mankind is as you say, guilty of producing what we see today. Mind you, most of those sad critters I was talking about are a relatively modern phenomena, and are far removed from the working dogs that have been around for centuries. However, that is beside the point. Whatever the reason for the behaviour of specific old breeds such as spaniels (for instance) was the result of changes wrought in their ancestors many, many years ago...and those character traits DO exist, it IS the way they are, virtually every member of those breeds act in a very predictable way, and have done for a VERY long time.

All I am saying is that THAT is how they are, whatever the reason for it...and there is no point in pretending that their breed characteristics are something brought about by an individual dogs owner at this stage. THAT is nonsense, and THAT mad hat character in them is what many folk love about them. We can toss this thing about until the cows come home...but that basic fact will remain a fact. I made a mistake in choosing that type of dog as a potential 'fishing dog', I should have known better, but that was my fault and I happily accept that fact...and love him for what he is. I do NOT want to drastically change him or subdue his character. I merely joined in on this thread to point out the basic characteristics of this particular breed of dog, because that specific question was asked by the OP. I am beginning to wish I had not bothered. Again.

Cheers, Dave.
 
On the money again Dave, I used to train dogs as a sideline a few years back, by train it was mostly basic obedience, walking to heel and such like, of course I was presented with a variety of breeds that the new owner expected them to behave as a 'Lassie' type.

As you know training any dog is 95% the owner and 5% the dog, well not quite but you know what I mean. I had Rotts Alsations Poodle, all sorts, and although 'heel' work was easy anything beyond that presented different problems.

Guarding breeds are the easier to to train in all aspects, but of course offer the greatest threat to the public. And it is with these breeds there is an almost indifference as to the potential risk they offer, and can end up in the wrong hands.

I rescued a Boxer x Lab (Toby) many years ago from the RSPCA Nr Bournemouth, as soon as I let him off in the local park he went straight for a little terrier and clamped on, I managed to seperate the terrier from his jaws, but not before cutting my thumb that needed stitches, imagine my horror that it was the nurses dog that stitched me up that Toby attacked!!

He was a loving dog with people, in fact we had our three sons grow up with him, never a problem, but other dogs? Forget it, and I as a ex RAF Dog handler could not train that out of him.

I found out later that Toby along with other dogs were rescued from a dog fighting syndicate in the New Forest, so no wonder.

He went on to live a long and full life, but couldn't bear being seperated from the family for even a minute, I am glad Toby chose us:)

We have rescued all sorts, but the most cutest and un dog like had to be the Belgian Griffon, that was going to be put down by her owner because she was 'too stubborn' I went to the Nursing Home for the interview as a potential adoptee, booted and suited, not really wanting the thing, but was accepted with a waive of the hand, and told to collect her from the Boarding Kennels. Of course the kids fell in love with her from day 1 little Mugwai :p

Sorry about the ramble, it's an age thing.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Nothing has happened to it, it still is what it always was...a mantra. If you look up the meaning of the word 'mantra', you will find something like this 'A word or sound repeated to aid concentration'. That in no way points to the words used as a 'mantra' being in any way true.

Everyone who knows dogs knows that each dog has a slightly different character, but at the same time, there are definitely character traits that are present to some degree in virtually every member of any given breed. While it IS true that if you train any dog systematically for a reasonably lengthy period, you can subdue those characteristics...but they are still there, you cannot eradicate them completely.

If you want a dog that is totally subservient to you, that does nothing until you tell it to, you can achieve that (at least while you are with the dog). Personally, I definitely don't want that, although I admit that there are small areas of my dogs behaviour that I would like to change a little bit, purely for his own safety.

Cocker and springer spaniels ARE by nature...as mad as a box of frogs. I have never come across one that wasn't. Train that out of them as best you can if you like...but that IS their natural character, and it's a bit weird of anyone to try to pretend that it isn't so. My previous dog was a golden retriever....calm, cool and collected once his puppy stage was done and dusted, with very few minor lapses. Those two breeds of dogs are as different as chalk and cheese...but that is not either the dog or the owners 'fault', in fact it isn't a fault at all....it is just fact. I really can't see what is 'surprising' or 'confusing' about that?

Cheers, Dave.
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Totally agree Dave... and I think if the word "mantra" was traded for the word "truism" then we'd be almost there:)
ATBA
Terry
 
When we were give our first Cocker about 15 years ago, I asked what age they tended to be when they 'grew up', I was told around 3, great I thought. When he was 3, I asked someone the same question, around 5 I was told. When he was 6 I asked again, at which point they laughed at me! He blessed us with his presence until he was 13, he was trained as a gundog by a well respected trainer and was excellent, but was still mental as anything until the day he left us! They are a fantastic breed that need work and patience, I would never contemplate training their personality out of them, or even trying to!
 
Nature - nurture arguement - if you have had a dog from a puppy you can train it to whatever standard you wish bearing in mind part of its make up is genetic (nature). One of our collies from a breeding line of international sheep trials winners is terrified of sheep and we have tried most things with him but is a brilliant agility dog due to training...just like people they have their own fears and foibles. That said there are standard traits which is a result of selective breeding as mentioned which is why guide dogs are generally from one breed. The Kennel Club of course have a role to play in all this and it seems there is even more disagreement about breeds in the dog world than we have about our other 'fury friends'. Back to the designer breeding, of course money talks - 30 years ago you would not have had to buy a cockapoo, Heinz 57 dogs as we used to call them were generally free or at worse very cheap.
 
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